Any advice please?! Insurance claim made against DS1, by driver with no road tax!

[Jellykat]

Any advice would be appreciated!

My DS1 was involved in a car accident on Jan 3rd.He was indicating to turn right at a junction,but his bumper was a foot over the line,he was about to move off, when a car approached in the opposite direction.

The other car was travelling well over the 30mph limit,and the road was icy.He swerved to avoid DS1, but skidded through a hedge,and into the side of a house!

DS1,owner of house,and second driver exchanged names and addresses,there was very little damage done,and second driver stated that it would be knock for knock as he had no valid road tax!(DS1 observed this by old disk displayed)

It appears the other driver has put in an insurance claim against DS1,and his insurance company are honoring it!They are saying the road tax issue is a separate matter and nothing to do with them.The local council may also charge DS1 for damages to house,hedge etc.

How can this be? the driver was illegally on the road,and now DS1 will lose his no claims and at 22yrs old, his insurance will go back up to @£900 a year..

Any advice re. what we could do?
Thank you!

Not having valid road tax does not invalidate insurance, I'm afraid. The insurance company are absolutely right in saying this is nothing to do with them. The driver not having road tax is not a contributory factor in this accident so they cannot refuse to pay out on this basis. It may be of interest to the police but that is another matter.

Did your son report this accident to his insurance company? If he did not do so he may have weakened his position somewhat. If his insurance company is paying out they have presumably concluded that he is at fault for the accident. Did the owner of the house witness the accident? Were there any other witnesses, including passengers in your son's car? If there were witnesses and they support his description that he was stationary at the time of the accident that would suggest that the other driver was at fault.

I would suggest that his first step is to complain to the insurance company on the grounds that the accident was not his fault.

Thank you for your reply.

No my son didn't report the accident as it was agreed at the time that the matter wouldn't go any further.

There were witnesses in my son's car,but his insurance company doesn't seem interested..

Can't the other driver be done for being on the road with no tax? I have told him to go and talk to his local police tomorrow..It seems a joke that it is illegal to have no tax,but if you still drive and it can be proved, nothing will happen!

My son took photos on his mobile of the front of the other car,all that was damaged was a bit of the headlight cover..Do you know if he will be notified what the other driver is claiming for, before his insurance company pay out? Can he contest that?

He is told different things each time he rings.

I am pretty sure having an invalid tax disc will not invalidate his insurance, hence his insurance company are taking this up. It depends on the terms and conditions of his insurance policy. The thing is his insurance company are overlooking the tax thing because it is in their interest! That way DS1s insurers foot the bill.

Provided his MOT and insurance were up to date the tax is an issue with the police but basically not a serious issue and thats why they are overlooking it.

If there is a point of dispute then DS1s insurers will fight for the other driver's insurance to pay. I reckon DS1s insurers wont be so happy and maybe fight the other claim. Get DS1 to phone his insurers to see whether they will be fighting it.

I think as DS1 was essentially across the white line and therefore caused the oncoming car to take avoiding action it is down to DS1 The home owner will sue the insurance co of the other driver, who will then pass the cost onto DS1s insurance company. A very costly mistake as I dont think most policies mention tax discs.

I've also found this in Parkers car guide which pretty much backs up what i've put

Driving without current tax disc

If a car has no road tax then insurers are still obliged to pay out for all claims. Despite committing an offence by not having tax, this is irrelevant to the accident and the insurer. A car can legally be on the road without tax if it's going to a pre-booked MOT test - during which the insurance is not invalidated.

Sadly its not the extent of the damage that is important, a claim is a claim and bang goes the NCB.

Oh - it's a pile of pants..

The other driver wasn't going to an m.o.t, but i guess that's irrelevant.

Yes, i had suspicions that it would be in the insurance companies interests to pay out,because they'll get lots more back with DS2s loss of 3 years no claims bonus,given his age.

Thank you for your help!

They are saying it's because DS was a foot over the lane division, and how to prove other driver was going too fast (especially given the icy conditions)?

I can see both sides. I agree that the tax disc is an annoying moot point. I do wonder what would have happened if the speeding car came upon an unexpected parked car at the side of the road, instead of a stationary car with someone in it. It's potentially virtually the same scenario, but with a different outcome. It doesn't seem very fair.

I bet the other driver puts in for lots of things not associated with the incident!

Oh well,I guess i'll just have to put a positive spin on it for DS who is hopping mad, at least noone was hurt,and his car was fine..

Maybe he should get a bicycle!- his first car was stolen from a 'secure car park' because he parked in the one cctv blind spot parking space!..

Sounds to me like there's an argument for contributory negligence. Hopefully DS has legal cover on his policy, in which case he can get representation to defend the claim.

Confused

What are your sons insurance saying.

If he did not see the car coming and stopped then he will be at fault even if the other car was speeding, although he can claim the other driver contributed to the crash through excessive speed (if he can prove this), or he would need to prove that because of bends, stationary cars and so on he could not see the car coming before he pulled up.

If he had crossed the line and was stationary then he might be liable for contributory fault but I would reject any such suggestions. However why was he stopped?

He might be able to prove the other car was speeding by employing a car engineer to look at the damage of the car, but that can be £300 or more or a crash investigator who are even more expensive.

If it was just a foot then the other driver should have gone round him easily on a normal road after all a lane is around 11ft wide.

If he skidded on ice it iis not your son's fault, he was going to fast for the conditions prevailing at the time

If I were your son I would be denying liability!

Agree I thought it was how coffee says ie if you spin on ice you are going too fast (for the conditions even if actual speed was only eg 10 miles/hr

DS2s insurance company are saying it's his fault, and that's that..

COFFEE-DS2 doesn't have legal cover,he went for the cheapest option available.

He was stationary as he was about to pull away to turn right, when the other car appeared.

It's very difficult to sort out,as DS2 isn't very good at arguing his corner, and is very stressed anyway( being in the middle of his final year of his degree course 150 miles away,and worrying about what he's going to do next).

Of course the insurance company won't discuss it with me.

I did ring DVLA today,but they weren't helpful,passing me from office to office,eventually saying i could only report
the other car,if it was currently untaxed and parked on a public road.

Such a shame,DS2 is such a careful driver,(he has to be in his little 15 year old car)not like the boy racers you see.Maybe the lesson is that he should've rung the police at the scene,and not have been so trusting of the other lads 'knock for knock' suggestion.

Having read what Res,Coffee and not are saying, i will spur him on, to fight further.

Thank you all!

Get his insurance to tell you why they think your son is to blame

Do you not have legal protection insurance on your house insurance?

He needs to stick to his guns, that is he was was stationary, the other driver was not paying attention, was driving to fast for the conditions, lost control because of ice on the road.

If you want to make a complaint against the drivers tax it is the police you need, how much tax was out of date?

Was he insured?

Still do not get why he was stationary

I'll give DSs insurers another try,maybe if i get a different person on the phone, they might not do the whole "we can only discuss the case with Mr Jellykat" thing.

Only contents insurance for house, i know that's bad, but i couldn't afford the whole package.

Great minds think alike -I told DS last night, to go and have a chat with the police today,with the other drivers' details to hand.Will find out what they said on Sunday.

Re the stationary thing.. You're driving along the road, your turning is on the right,you indicate,slow right down,just about to pull away again.. car appears coming towards you fast,you realize you don't have enough time to cut across their lane,so you stop to let them go past..they swerve slightly, skid on the ice and keep going, mount pavement,through a hedge and into someones garden..

That's my understanding anyway,it's a bit tricky to get it, when DSs mobile signal keeps cutting out.

If they say that then you simply have to get MrJellycat to agree verbally with the person that you speak too (and ask them to record this on file for any future dealings) that he gives permission for you to speak to them on his behalf.

I had to do this last year when I was involved in a car accident and my dad dealt with the insurance stuff as I wasn't able too. I basically confirmed with teh guy on the phone that I wanted my dad to deal with it, and confirmed his name and address to them.

Good thinking Gillybean,Thank you - will give it a go on Monday.

Or think of it another way - you are driving along a road, a car is turning right across your lane, looks like it is going to pull into you so you swerve to avoid it, hit an icy patch lose control and mount pavement etc etc.

Think your DS has to put it down to experience

OMG. No LEGAL COVER. Its only a few extra pounds even with 3rd party! Thats the one thing I would always make sure I had. Poor DS1 he doesnt stand a chance now against the might of the other drivers insurance company. Please tell him never ever to admit liability again, even knock for knock. He knows the other driver was driving too fast for the conditions - proving it would be a nightmare. How did DS1 know he was a foot over the white line if he was stationary, its not a huge distance and difficult for him to judge from the drivers seat?

I've also acted on behalf of MY DS with an insurance company, just needed his permission. It went all the way to the financial ombudsman - the insurance company lying through their teeth, losing taped conversations, denying others took place!! it was a draw I think! If you deal with the insurance company take names, times, departments and never take anything on trust!

Do you have legal cover on the household insurance ?
Insurance is going through the roof anyway, I had somebody hit me in similar conditions and my insurance is going up as a result.
I am seriously considering getting rid of the car.

Surely if the road was icy, could your son say he car didn't stop, even though he applied his breaks in the correct time and so it was accidental that he was over the line and was about to reverse back safely when the other car hit him?

Agree with coffee in that if your DS was literally a foot over the line in icy conditions, then how do they know it was his fault?

Surely the other car was going way too fast? If he was only just over the line, then the other car would have been going too fast if he need to 'swerve'. I would also speak to the ombudsman and ask why they are blaming your ds.

He could maybe get some free legal advice from CAB.

Tell him next time he must get legal cover as well on his car insurance. He must tell his insurance that he wants them to fight the claim and he refuses to accept liability.

In fact as the other car didn't hit him I think he could argue its nothing at all to do with him. At the end of the day the other driver was speeding and skidded on ice.

I always thought that anything another car did was irrelevent unless they hit you. So if a car slams on its breaks infront of you and you rear end it its your fault - you can't blame the other car for breaking suddenly.

Your son can argue if this other car hadn't been speeding he wouldn't have needed to stop as he'd have had time to complete the right turn.

Well i say 'no legal cover', i am presuming this- knowing DS1 as i do!.. 22yr old 'boys' seem to think it'll never happen to them, until it does..

I have spent years reminding him to always read the small print,drink water before you go to sleep if you are pissed,and dry between your toes.. now i think he has learnt what not/what to do if involved in a accident!

Thanks everyone,I have listed all the suggestions and possibilities on here, and will go through them all with him tomorrow, over the phone.I have to admit to being a bit clueless regarding insurance claim procedures..

VivaLB, If another car did an emergency stop in front of you, and you went into the back of them,it would be your fault for not allowing enough breaking distance between you..

I only learnt to drive myself 4 years ago,and i'm sure i've remembered that correctly..but i am quite old