Legal helps here please :)

[SK1ER]

Until my son's father, if he does, gets Parental Responsibilities given to him by court, or even after, can I as the mum, the parent with care (and at the moment the only person with parental responsibility) make a formal parental responsibility agreement with another person?

My ex (after son's father) was my son's common-law step-father and still remains so in my and my son's eyes.

We (me, my son and my mum) would like it if I make a formal parental responsibility agreement with him as it will give my son added security in the very likely event of his natural father abusing the court system once he has PR, as a legitimised whipping stick against me.

So, Question A: Can I make that formal agreement now and without my son's fathers permission?

B: As my son's father has made an application to the court but a hearing has not yet been held, although one is arranged, can the fact that proceedings have started in a way prevent me from doing so?

Excuse me gillybean2, my last response to you on that thread was to thank you!

Spero: I am genuine and if you've never heard of falls due to low blood pressure here's some help

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_hypotension

Hopefully the next person who comes on here looking for help and has the 'audacity' to not take everything you say as gospel will not be treated with suspicion and almost hostility.

I'm sorry that this thread has ended on a bad note, I came here only looking for what is best for my son as per my concerns and his wishes, his emotional welfare and him being in a physically safe environment.

freshmint:

My son doesn't want his dad to have PR for reasons mentioned earlier.

Are you suggesting I ignore my son's wishes and give his father PR?

I'm not being facetious when I ask that, I'm genuinely puzzled as to why my son's needs should be ignored in this? As his mum I want for him what he wants and I'm sure the court will try and do what's best for him too, I don't understand your post.

As for constant battling, I offered mediation, his dad refused it, so it is he who is willing to waste a lot of public money.

I did want to hear legal advice and it's been very helpful and I have thanked people for it.

gillybean:

your comment about mediation being a requisite part of legal aid, also your link to the childrens legal services website have proved invaluable, I have thanked you twice for your help now. If you consider this 'not listening' and feel that is reason enough to speak ill of someone then I can only think you are on these discussion boards for the wrong reasons.

Sk1er you didn't know what the difference between PR and child's rights were - that's why you asked for info on it. So how can you ds possibly know enough to make a decision like not wanting his dad to have PR based on what little info he has had on it (in less than a week if you've shown his the links and talked about it to him).

And yes you did thank me on that thread for one post, that isn't the post I was refering too.
You then moved the questions over to here so I posted here not there and got ignored (like others) who say things you perhaps don't want to hear imo. For example you didn't like being told it was almost impossible for your other ex to not be given PR and I had to post a link to a form which showed you would have to bring the mariage certificate to court to prove he was a step parent (which he wasn't and isn't)

And yes courts rarely gave non maried father's PR in the past. You didn't automatically get it if you were named on the birth certificate as the father either. That has now changed and so has having to fight very hard to get PR given to fathers. Don't assume that he won't get it now based on the past.
You would need to show good reasons why he shouldn't get it and trying to get your ex (not ds's dad) PR before your ex gets you to court for PR is simply .... I'm not sure what word to use. I asked you why it was denied and why you are so against it now...

What magic stick do you really think having PR will give him to beat you with?

I don't really understand how you can justify with-holding PR from youd ds's natural father (who hasn't been absent in his life) yet you are more than happy to give itto your an ex partner who is unrelated to your ds. That seems unreasonable to me. When I (and others) told you it wasn't going to happen you wouldn't accept it and pushed and pushed hoping to hear differently...

Your posts have a lot of your worries and what you want in them. I asked above what it is you are so worried about and you didn't say...

And you have consistenly said your ds wants contact but then you give all sorts of reasons you won't let it happen and don't like it when people tell you that a court or cafcass may not see it the way you do. If the house is unsafe and SS have said not to allow your ds to go there then you need that in writing. However you said SS weren;t wanting to be involved, so they can't be that worried abot his welfare...

Basically (and again) if your ex really is being unreasonable his solicitor will advise him of that. CAFCASS will tell him and the court that. And a judge will see it. If you think you are being reasonable and putting you ds first then you have nothing to worry about. So why are you so worried...?!

Anyhow I already told myself I wasn't going to comment any further on this thread yet here I am getting caught again...

I'm sorry if you feel people are getting at you, but it is frustrating when you don't seem to want to hear what is being said to you

It is always such a shame when people post on here and - for free - get amazing, clear, and sensible advice from incredibly well-informed and professional people - but as it is not what they want to hear, ignore it and start accusing those posters of hostility.

I have some limited experience of family court and sometimes try to help and am always happy to be corrected by people who know better than me (and could easily be earning money for this advice).

OP - PR is not a 'legalised whipping stick'. It will make no difference to your life. As I understand it (although see disclaimer above) it is absolutely standard and the sol probably didn't think twice about it when he was sorting out the application for contact.

Perhaps if you wish to fully consider the effect of this on your son you might want to add into the mix that YOU have stopped contact (even though you have said he wants to see his Dad)for over a year, that you want to give PR to an ex (?) and that your son might just be aware that you seem to think that his father wants to kill you with the stress of a court case and doesn't give a toss about him. Perhaps your son wouldn't be quite as concerned about PR if you hadn't made him think it would be the end of the world?

My husbands father died when he was 17, just a few years older than your son. He wasn't a perfect father, pretty cold and dominating from what I can gather. But DH would walk over broken glass to spend another hour with his Dad. Just a thought.

Balia:

Just to clarify a few points,

I didn't stop contact, I said to my son's dad what the social worker had said to me and came up with alternatives to his house until such time as he could/ would make it habitable (I would love to see my son spend some weekends with his dad but wearing a thick coat all weekend isn't on:) ) unfortunately his dad refused to consider other options.

Had this genuinely been about contact he could have approached a solicitor last July when the problems arose. He has (voluntarily) had no contact with his son since then.

His application to the court came the week after the CSA told him he would definately have to pay.

Balia has very kindly informed me, on my other thread, that my son's father could make the applications we were concerned about even if he didn't have PR so that removes the worry for us and has made an immense difference to how worried we all were :)

We considered the option of giving PR, if it had been possible, to my ex because he has been amuch more consistant and supportive figure in my son's life sadly than his father has and we thought it would, should his dad start making objections to court, give my son more people on his side.

When I say 'on his side' unfortunately my son's dad has chosen a confrontational way, to go straight for court, no mediation etc which I'm a bit puzzled by as I was informed on here mediation is a requisite of getting legal aid? Also his solicitor is a member of resolution!

I spoke with the mediation service yesterday and they are going to contaxct his solicitor to ask why no mediation was offered. his solicitor is aware I am open to mediation.

Could it be my son's dad's solicitor has suggested mediation but he refused? Would he still have been allowed to get legal aid?

To put things very very simply, which I probably should have done from the beginning, all I want is for my son to see his dad whenever my son wants in a safe and warm environment, and to (although this seems a moot point now :)) protect my son from his dad causing my son further unrest by using the courts at a way to get back at me.

I just want my son to be happy, to feel safe, and for that feeling to come from the behaviour of both his parents.

Thank you for your time in your response :)

gillybean:

If I have ignored you, or anybody else it has been a genuine error, I've tried to thank everyone for their time, effort and advice.

I'm very new to here and having 2 threads going has just confused me, also the page isn't showing all the replies for some reason even when I refresh it or click the link to the previous page to see if I missed anybody, it must be a browser problem as it is happening on other sites with less complex scripting.

If I've offended anybody, or appeared to have ignored them then I'm genuinely sorry. Even if someone gave me advice I didn't want to hear I would still like to thank them for their time and effort so please believe me it hasn't been deliberate snubbing.

Balia:

I understand where you're coming from re your DH's dad, I've been in a similar position myself.

I have always encouraged open contact, and am grateful his dad lives only doors away as it makes it a much more natural arrangement.

Even when negative feelings were running at their highest his dad was always invited over to ours on DS's birthdays and Christmas.

My concern over court forcing contact was them forcing it against DS's wishes as his dad has applied for contact with no set days or times so technically he could request access at any time and if an order was in place I would, if there was no time to take the particular issue to court (which I would rather not do for DS's sake) have to force DS to go.

I'm not sure court would order such an open arrangement? Wouldn't it be difficult to enforce?

I think set days and times would be better for DS as he would know exactly where he stood and would be a good starting point, if his dad came up with an idea for a day out somewhere else that would be brilliant.

DS also has exams and his school have this annoying habit of announcing 'catch up' a late lesson on a particular exam subject, at the last minute so weekends would be a better option.

I suspect DS's dad has requested open access to fit around his own lifestyle rather than DS's.

What worries me is DS's dad has a girlfriend some distance away, if or when he starts working again it maybe only weekends he could see her but my son has no free evenings in the week, he extra curriculum activites etc, could/ would a court force my son to give up one of those evenings?

How much are they on the child/ teenager's side?

Sorry this got a bit unpleasant: I hope you can understand that it is frustrating to keep repeating the same thing and have it (apparently) ignored.

But I should try to remember how horrible it is to be caught in the middle. I do know, because I have been there. But I did try to listen to what people were saying.

The bottom line remains: your son is 15. It is absolutely pointless for either of you to try to parcel up his time and say, he will see his dad now and not then.

What he needs is to feel he can come and go between parents as and when he wants to. You can't lay down a timetable at this age, his friends and girlfriends are much more important to him now and that is the way it should be.

The court is always 'on the child's side'. Sometimes this means 'forcing' a child to do something a child doesn't want to do because that will be in the child's long term best interests. For example, I would expect a clear contact order to be made about a child under 10 and the court would expect it to be obeyed.

But what the court also recognises is that it gets increasingly counterproductive to try to force teenagers into relationships they don't currently want or value. If your son were simply to refuse to go to contact, there is NOTHING a court could or would want to do. He cannot be physically picked up and carried to contact. He is old enough to walk out, get on a bus or a train.

He is just far too old for all of this. I am amazed that your ex is going to court. I assume he is paying privately? I would be amazingly pissed off if he is getting my tax money to fund this.

Anyway. I hope this has been of some help.

Hi Spero

Thank you, yes it has been of great help :)

I think my initial approach/ wording was all wrong.

Unfortunately DS's dad is funded by Legal Aid.

He already had complete access, the request to make his house safe was one I was advised by a socail worker to make and he refused, he also refused to consider other contact options, will this go against him?

He also already has all the things PR gives you, he's always been able to attend parent evenings, I asked the school to send duplicates of everything to him etc

So for him to make a statement denying all the above, and to deny there was ever a previous case (almost identical to this and went against him) and to refuse mediation...

... and all of this to come the week after the CSA told him he would have to pay ...

We all think it's tit for tat and that he doesn't have genuine reasons for making the application.

He's wasting tax payers money, endangering my health and worst of all has upset our son greatly.

Thank you for your assurance that the court wouldn't force my son into something he didn't want, it was what I was afraid of most of all.

And thank you for taking the time to reply :)