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Legal matters

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Original poster

Incident on work night out

45 replies

ameliameerkat · 11/12/2010 17:30

So we had our Christmas night out last night. And it was going well, usual fun and drunkenness. Until......boy A kissed girl A and boy B waded in and punched boy A. Boys A and B and girl A all work in the same team. Boy B then left the pub and Boy A followed him and may have retaliated at this point. This was all witnessed by the boss of the team. Turns out girl A and boy B have been seeing each other for a few months, which no-one in the team knew about. Boy B is a bit of a volatile character.

The police were called and spoke to them both separately and they were told to behave themselves, so from the police point of view there are no problems. But.....Monday morning is going to be interesting. We don't have HR staff in our office and I will be prodding the bosses to contact the right people in our head office to ask for advice. What can work do about it? Boy B was the one at fault. Can he be sacked? I think at least a couple of us are hoping he quits so no formal procedures have to be gone through.

Aargh. At least another member of staff who got very drunk (which meant I missed the kissing/punching as I was trying to manhandle her into a cab with another girl helping) won't be getting teased on Monday quite as much as she would have been otherwise.

Any legal opinions gratefully received!

OP posts:

girlynut · 15/12/2010 14:03

If these three individuals had been on a night out by themselves and it all kicked off, there would be no involvement on the part of the employer.

I would imagine the employer only needs to be concerned about being vicariously liable for the actions of their employees. So Man A could instigate a claim against them for any injuries and hold them responsible for Man B's actions. But that's stretching it.

It does seem a bit over the top to be going down the disciplinary route, given that the incident occured outside office hours and not on office premises.

Having worked at a firm with over 1000 staff in their 20s and 30s for over a decade, this kind of thing was always happening, sometimes in the work social club. Usually a quiet word from the boss about the appropriateness of behaviour did the trick. Plus the embarrassment of being the subject of offie gossip!

PinkElephantsOnParade · 15/12/2010 16:03

max - if you are at your firm's Xmas bash you are not on your own time. You are subject to your firm's disciplinary code.

HR professionals have said this earlier in the thread.

A lot of people do not appear to be aware of this, but it is the case.

PinkElephantsOnParade · 15/12/2010 16:06

Girly - yes, but your firm did take action - even having a quiet word is action.

Often a quiet word is all that is appropriate for most incidents.

The OPs firm has not yet taken any action against anyone, they are still investigating. They might well decide that a stern word is all that is needed.

WestVirginia · 15/12/2010 16:23

They took it literally when they were told it was the Christmas "bash"

PinkElephantsOnParade · 15/12/2010 17:42

west

maxpower · 15/12/2010 17:56

west

pink so do you get paid to go on a work do? If so, I might start attending some of mine.....

PinkElephantsOnParade · 15/12/2010 18:06

max - have a look at phr47's posts - he (I think is a he, sorry if I am mistaken phr) is a solicitor so knows more about these things than me.

But I can also remember reading a HR journal which warned that incidents at works parties can be the subject of disciplinary proceedings the same as if they happen in the workplace.

Doesn't matter whether or not you are on paid time.

As you ask, max, I have been paid for some Xmas parties I have attended, but that would have had no bearing on whether I could be disciplined on one for choosing to smack a colleague in the teeth.

Lunchtime parties would tend to be paid, evening ones usually not.

Original poster

ameliameerkat · 15/12/2010 19:50

The lady may have been the catalyst, but certainly not a protagonist. To suggest she was in any way to blame for the violence that occurred is just daft.

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Original poster

ameliameerkat · 15/12/2010 19:55

Just realised we're onto a second page!!

I was subtly sounding out those who are doing the investigating today and it seems like they agree that Man A is not in trouble. Not sure what's going to happen to Man B yet.

As for getting paid, I guess we were effectively paid to attend up until half 5, as it was a lunch. Not that that has any bearing on this. As people have correctly stated, as it was a work event, work policies and disciplinary procedures apply. I've had that confirmed by HR.

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WestVirginia · 15/12/2010 20:02

Woman A may have caused the problem by being drunk and disorderly.

Baublepink · 15/12/2010 20:29

Woman A did not cause the problem. Man B caused the problem by his reaction to Woman A. He was not forced to react in this manner and the reason why he is a matter of legal discourse within the company now is because he didn't control his temper. Other people in his position may have had the reaction that they would not give Woman A the satisfaction of knowing they cared and would have ignored the kiss. The problem was avoidable and not necesarily inevitable.

Also, I have read prh47's posts before and he/she is always right, so I would believe his/her comments on this one! (Are you a he or a she, prh47? Also are you a solicitor or a barrister? I do imagine you in a court of law )

WestVirginia · 15/12/2010 20:34

prh47 is NOT always right.

WestVirginia · 15/12/2010 20:35

Woman A may have been totally drunk and incapable

Baublepink · 15/12/2010 20:51

West - What is your expanded point wrt how drunk and disorderly or incapable Woman A is wft Man B's behaviour? Man B still was not forced to react the way he did no matter how drunk, disorderly or incapable Woman A was. Woman A's stance cannot cancel out for Man B's behaviour - it may be a mitigating factor or suggest a reason for Man B's violence, but it is not the cause of the situation. Man B is solely responsible for his own behaviour and actions. IMHO.

Resolution · 15/12/2010 23:57

West just has issues that need resolving methinks.

threefeethighandrising · 16/12/2010 00:02

I blame Woman B.

Original poster

ameliameerkat · 16/12/2010 18:44

Man A is in the clear. Man B has been interviewed and a decision is still to be made, but I've been told he's still part of the team.

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Original poster

ameliameerkat · 21/12/2010 21:13

Man B is back in the office. Obviously there's been no word on whatever warning/sanctions he has. But what bugs me as he doesn't seem to think he did anything wrong! He was complaining today that he's behind in his work as he "was forced out of the office last week" and apparently blames the team leader for that (as obviously the team leader forced him to punch Man A.......). The only apology Man A has had was a text not that long after the incident, which I saw, which wasn't an apology as far as I'm concerned as he didn't admit any wrongdoing. And no word of him offering to pay for a couple of Man A's possessions that got smashed during the fight.

In a way I feel sorry for Man B as he obviously still doesn't realise he has problems with his anger, which means it's only a matter of time until he gets in trouble again.

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VickstaS · 30/12/2010 18:27

Wow I am amazed he wasn't sacked. A colleague of mine was sacked the day after an Xmas party last year for lesser offences than hitting someone (he was verbally abusive to his boss and several women). The company had provided the alcohol, he did appeal against the sacking, but the witness statements made shocking reading apparently, and the sacking stood.

Original poster

ameliameerkat · 03/01/2011 10:02

I spoke to someone who has worked in HR for many years and she said it's really difficult to sack people. In her opinion if something like that had happened in the office, then they would have been sacked, but outside of the office they'd get a warning, which is what I think has happened here.

I'm not looking forward to going back to work in a couple of days and having to deal with him again!

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