LONG - Please help - families with 3+ kids

[Maxorias]

Hello everyone,

Warning - this is gonna be long: I just need to get it out: Please be nice, or if you can't just move on:

I have two son just 18 months apart: They are wonderful boys and also get along really well (with the occasional bout of sibling squabbling but really have a beautiful relationship):

I have always wanted either 2 or 3 kids, never could quite decide which: After my second was born I started thinking about it: I didn't want them to have a huge age gap as I knew I wouldn't want to go back to nappies and sleepless nights so I felt the pressure to decide quickly: Took me a year to decide to hesitantly go for it: When the first test was negative, I was crushed, and took this to mean that I really wanted a third:

In the end it took IVF but it was successful and I had my third child: When she was born I was very happy and for a few months, my life seemed perfect:

Fast forward to now, my daughter is eleven months old and I've been having a huge wobble and anxiety: It started a few weeks ago, seemingly out of the blue (but did coincide with some financial issues): At first I couldn't understand what was going on, I started questioning my relationships, everything: Now, after a lot of soul searching, I realize I'm terrified of not being able to give my kids enough: Enough of everything: Enough of me, enough treats, enough holidays: I spend my time obsessing on everything we could do with just my eldest two as opposed to three: I think about the money I spent on IVF that we could really use now:

When I decided to go for it my youngest was under 2 years old: Now he's 4 going on 5: Back then I felt like, what's one more baby ? I figured as the older two would grow up they'd need me less and it'd be fine: I didn't fully appreciate that even as kids need less hands on intervention they do need more input:

The smallest things can make me feel bad: For instance we took the kids to a parc with a teleferic the other day, they loved it, but all I could think was that I would be able to do more outings like this if it was just the two of them: I regret my third child: I feel so awful saying that because she's a beautiful baby who deserves better than to be regretted: So I feel guilt towards her, and guilt towards my older two:
The things that make me feel better are spending time with the kids, which I generally do whenever I'm not at work: I also feel a bit better when I see my eldest interact with my youngest as he's wonderful with her (wants to help bathe her, makes her smile and giggle, etc): But my middle child is very jealous of her being the baby and I feel awful about him being relegated to being a middle child: I was a middle child myself and was okay with it so never thought it'd be an issue: But now I think he'd be better of as the youngest: He's very addicted to screens (always has been) and the thought of leaving him in front of screens while I'm busy with the baby makes me feel terrible (I've recently taken steps to further limit screen time):

I just feel this pit of anxiety most days: You know how some people stress eat ? I'm the opposite: When I'm stressed out/anxious, I may be hungry but the thought of eating makes me sick: I'm also unable to drink alcohol: Usually I enjoy my food and I like the occasional glass of wine but lately have struggled with that, been skipping a lot of meals: I'm a healthy weight but I know this is an unhealthy dynamic: I'm obsessing over this and this is impacting everything, on top of being utterly exhausting: I know it doesn't help - my daughter is here now and dwelling on might-have-beens doesn't help: And I know I'm probably massively idealizing life with two: In fact if I had two I might be obsessing over having lost the opportunity to have three and feel awful about that, who knows:

I read somewhere that two children is not enough and three is too many: I think this is how I really felt and this is why it took me so long to decide: I was afraid of regretting it if I didn't, and most people in my close circle had three: My parents had three, my grand-parents had three (other set had five !), my uncle had three kids, my aunt had three kids::: my friend said she wanted six (!), my brother and SIL wanted four or six: So it didn't feel like this many: Sometimes I watch youtube videos about large families to make me feel better about it - when you see people with 8+ kids, three doesn't seem that many:

My children are so wonderful and I love them so, so much, it hurts sometimes: I cry just at the thought of giving less than everything: It's funny because I always loved them but all of a sudden it feels a thousand times more intense:

Sometimes I tell myself that my worries center a lot around the age gap rather than number of kids - my older two can do most stuff together whereas I have to plan separately for my daughter: But it also makes me feel worse because I feel then that I had the perfect set up, why did I mess it up ?

I struggle to give time and attention to my partner because I feel awful taking time away from my kids: I allowed them to start sleeping in our bedroom because having them close made me feel a bit better: I feel guilty about not allowing it before (to be fair my son used to kick in his sleep, but right now I just want to hold them and not let go):

It may be worth mentioning that this year has been very full on: My daughter was born, we had two major family holidays, we moved to a new country, and now face financial worries as the new country is a lot more expensive than I thought it would be: I wonder if this could have been caused by ppd but it seems odd, my daughter's delivery was by far the easiest of the three (came in two hours with no pain), and I was feeling great until a few weeks ago:

Please, if anyone has been through anything similar, does it get better ? Is it normal to feel this way ? Will it get better as my daughter grows up and can interact more with her siblings ?
My main worries are :

• having less money for activities
• not being able to give them as much time as they need
• Having a less intimate relationship with them that I might have had
• their sibling dynamic being negatively impacted by being three instead of two

I could really use a hand hold/positive stories/a positive spin on this right now:

Would love to talk to a professionnal but like I said, money's tight atm and we live in a different country so have to be private:

I do want to access professional help, the way I feel is awful and I'd do anything to not feel like that anymore: But gotta wait for the situation to stabilize financially:

If your child is 11 months then quickly self refer to local nhs talking therapy for post natal- I did and was seen very quickly as a priority because of the under-1 yo.

I know exactly how you feel, I've often been in your shoes albeit with my own set of worries.

Even if you've realised now that having a 3rd child was a solution to future problems, it's one of the things that obviously can't be undone. At the time, with the information you had available, this was the choice that felt right and you need to give yourself grace for trying to do the right thing.

In hindsight, it might have proven to be a choice that you wouldn't make again, but what's done is done. If we had the ability to see the future, we would only make the right choices but as we don't, we can only try our best. At one point, we need to make peace with the decisions we have made in life, and I can assure you that with this acceptance of the things we can't change anymore comes a great sense of calmness and a "release" of sorts from any worries stemming from this decision.

If I were you, every time a thought related to having a 3rd child pops up, I would try to redirect my attention to something else, perhaps a chore, a chat with a friend or anything that engages your thoughts. Don't try to force the thought away, but also don't engage with it. I sometimes imagine "swiping away" unhelpful thoughts of mine that I know might lead to rumination.

Appreciate your input but I live in another country and I'm not british so it doesn't apply. I do have health insurance but I have to pay up front and then they'll pay me back (and it usually takes months). I recently had to pay 1800€ dental bill for my DS (who unfortunately has awful issues with his teeth), so definitely not the best time.

It will get better - got a 7% raise this month and should get my full salary from april onward, we're also considering moving to a cheaper zone (farther from the school but possibly nicer amenities and cheaper rent), but also need to save up to finance that move.

You have a mental illness which is inventing obstacles for why you can't get better & get you help asap... the MI wants to perpetuate itself. It's like an evil brain worm.

Would you delay getting your broken leg splinted until you had "more stable finances" or delay getting a wound stitched shut? Your situation is an equal size emergency to those problems, your mental illness just won't let you see that.

Thank you, I mean I wouldn't wish this on anyone but it does feel better to know I'm not the only one struggling with such feelings.

It's funny because the sense of release you describe is something I felt before, funnily enough when taking a plane. I used to be nervous when the plane was shaking etc. One day I told myself "well, there's nothing I can actually do about this, if the plane's gonna crash it's gonna crash and I'm gonna die and there's nothing I can do to prepare." And after that I've always been very relaxed on planes.

I think the reason why I struggle to let go is that this is a situation of my own making. The plane crashing is not something I can foresee or plan for so letting go is easier, in a way. But I feel like this situation is something I could have foreseen/had the power to control, which makes it hard to forgive myself.

I try to tell myself that my daughter is worth it but the reality is that she's still a baby, and while I love her I don't feel like I "know" her the same way I do the older two. I did feel the same way when the boys were younger so I hope it'll come as she grows up.

In the mean time I'll try to apply your suggestions and not engage with those thoughts and feelings. It's hard as I want to think about it to find a way to fix it, and it's a bit of a mind shift to think that the best way to fix it is to NOT think about it !

I like you am hyper fixated on the fact we shouldn't have had a 3rd child. He was born extremely prematurely, has a global development delay and just turned 3. Every day with him is a nightmare, he is such hard work and we very rarely do things together as a family anymore because he throws constant tantrums in public. I resent my husband as he wanted a 3rd but I didn't, it was a surprise pregnancy and I would have had an ab. but dh wouldn't hear it. It's caused so much resentment in our relationship and I am constantly overwhelmed and on the verge of a meltdown. I would give anything to go back to being a family of four with dh 8 and dd 6. But this where we're at and I guess we just need to ride the wave and hope that at some point it gets easier. You have my thoughts xx

@Kkvt88 thank you, and sorry you're in the same boat. So sorry to hear about your DS. I wish I had words of wisdom for you but I don't even have them for myself unfortunately. I hope the tips others have shared on this thread can also help you.

Wow if that’s not inspiration to keep going, I don’t know what is!

take each day as it comes. I don’t really think young children care about days out. Cut yourself some slack.

N-1 is the perfect way to describe it.

It doesn’t matter which one of my children isn’t there, it makes managing the others sooooo much easier. And quieter.

The other thing to hold on for OP is when you can start taking each one out individually- it’s MARVELLOUS. They are brilliant in a unit and just amazing to spend 1-2-1 time with.

I would like to echo PP, you need to treat this anxiety seriously so you can treat it and recover from it. If you don’t it will turn into a chronic condition and invade every part of your life. This is your early indicator, miss it and you’ll hit a wall eventually that you can’t climb.

I have googled and cannot find the answer!
what does N-1 mean please!

@Pinkelephant66 you're right that I do put a lot of pressure on myself. I know we didn't have a lot of money growing up and it never was an issue. But I still feel bad thinking about missed opportunities. It never seemed important before (but I wasn't struggling with money before, I was able to save a good amount each month).

@Newyeargymwanker I don't want it to get worse ! It's kinda hard because I have never struggled like that before. I had reasonable levels of anxiety. And it's also hard because I go from feeling like it's ok to feeling like it's not, back to feeling alright. It's exhausting.

@AwakeNotThruChoice
N is the number of children you have,
so N-1 means if you leave one child at home, any one of them, it’s much easier.

Logic would dictate leaving the most high needs/ demanding child at home would be easier, but that’s not the case. Being without any one of them makes handling the others easier.
Doesnt matter how many children you have, being just one down makes all the difference.

hope that helps x

@lljkk maybe you have a fair point. I thought about it and the financial aspect - while genuine - is not the only reason I struggle to get help. Other reasons are :

• Feel guilty about taking time/resources away from kids right when it feels like those are scarce
• Have to find the right therapist, which is not easy to do at the best of time, let alone while struggling
• Language barrier - I'm fairly comfortable in the local language but it's hard enough to bare your soul in your mother tongue, let alone in a third language
• Maybe (?) I'm a little scared of what if it doesn't help... Then I really won't know what to do

There's food for thought there.

I'm usually such a rational being, I struggle with non-rational thoughts and feelings.

As someone who csne from s poor family with 2 older siblings. My childhood was amazing. We didn't do holidays every year only once every 2 / 3 to visit family abroad. I never had a holiday until I was and adult. Going to visit family is not a holiday. Mybparents took us to free places we barely went anywhere that had entry fee.
The park, nature parks, nature reserves, hills and mountain walks, visiting family and seeing cousins, explorong towns and cities locally. Once a ya at we went to a theme park (through my parents worked place it cost £2 per person). We did loads of picnics out in nature. I never had a takeaway until I was 16! We never wejt to restaurants. Home cooked food and prepped picnics.
I have 0 negative emotion and the best memories cane from the free activities not the paid ones. Just being a kid and running free and visiting outdoor locations was more then enough.
First world problems not having holidays yearly. Not going to expensive paid for activities. Children dont need any of that.
Holidays are appreciated when you're older as an adult.

I have 2 and plan to have 2 more and we do free activities for the kids. Parks and open spaces all the time. I had a fantastic childhood with a simple life.

Thanks @MixedCouple2 , you're right that there's a lot of free stuff to do. Thing is, I live in a very capitalist south american country (moved a few months ago), which I think is part of the trigger that caused this anxiety as there isn't a lot of free stuff available here and a lot of stuff is EXPENSIVE.

It's also realizing that I can't easily do stuff with all three like I could with the first two. Yesterday we were reading the bed time story and the baby was screaming. I wanted to put her in bed so we could finish but my eldest insisted he wanted her to be there because she's his little sister. Stuff like that warms my heart but also makes me worry it'll be two against one and wreck the beautiful relationship my boys have atm.

I've made an appointment with someone a colleague recommanded. Next monday. We'll see if that helps.

@Newyeargymwanker OH thanks have never heard of that description and have 3 children. I guess it’s easier when one is at home? But mine are teens and a 4 year old so probably not relevant as I don’t have to stop the older 2 running off!!

Figured I'd update. I have ups and downs. Spoke to the therapist today and I feel like it helped a bit, as he helped me see I'm putting myself under a LOT of pressure. He also helped me see that the issue isn't the third child, it's all of the other life stressors (chief among them, money). But the money aspect will get better and I have a few options to improve things there so I'm trying not to sweat it.

I'm feeling a lot more positive about things - I know there will be more ups and downs but it can and will get better. Realizing this really wasn't about how many kids I have really really helped, as this is the one thing I can't change. But I can change anything else to make sure my children have the best possible childhood (which is the most important thing for me).

but you don’t neeed to give them everything. You just need to love them from your heart and you seem to love them very much. They would feel it and it’s enough. Having everything is not healthy for them.

@Anusername thank you for that, it made me tear up for real.

I was doing much better, but the day before yesterday my partner had a wobble about our relationship and it brought everything back up. The fact is that if my partner wasn't there I would struggle to have 1--2-1 time with the kids, and I'd be a bit screwed. I mean, I would manage of course, but it would impact our lives for the worse.

The objective fact is that if I had my time again I'd have stayed at 2. But the fact is also that I didn't (to be fair the situation was much different when I made the choice). We're on a day out right now and we had a great time - but less so for me because I spent the day thinking how much easier and quieter it'd have been with two.

I'm now trying to focus on taking each day as it comes rather than fretting about what-ifs that may never happen, and on forgiving myself for making the wrong choices - I did the best I could with what I had at the time.

I'm also hoping that time will help, now that we're settled and hopefully we reach balance on our ingoings and outgoings rather than deficits. Also the fact that my daughter is 1 and 1-2 is the worst age for me - old enough to be bored but young enough to have zero attention span and zero indépendance. I'm probably not making things easier by refusing categorically to let a child under 3 use a tablet. So I'm hoping that I'll feel very different by the time she's three and we're out of the worst years.

So yeah, ups and down, but we'll get there. The fact that there are ups makes me hopeful.

I just wish I'd taken more time to think about it, but for various reasons (age, age gap, financial and practical reasons), I felt I had to make a quick decision. I knew I wouldn't want to do it once the kids were 4-5, and I didn't want the decision made by default rather than proactive choice. Maybe this should have been my clue that it was a mistake (I would have wanted a second even with a larger age gap), but when IVF didn't work the first times I was crushed. I thought it meant I really wanted it. But the kids were two and three at the time, so it felt very different to now they're 4 and 6.

Obviously I still have work to do on myself to apply what I said in pp - forgiving myself and focusing on the day to day challenges.

Not sure anyone will read my ramblings but it helps to put it all out there. Like lancing a wound.

Another update that I don't know if anyone will read but no matter !

I've gone back to feeling a lot better, which helps a lot as I now know these feelings will pass when I feel down, I just need to grit my teeth and get through them.

I'm at the most difficult time, when they're all still so little, but my youngest turned one recently and in a year or two we'll finally be out of the worst years. It'll come fast ! I can already see DS2's birthday looming, he's turning 5 already !

I think a lot of feelings were dredged up from my own childhood (which was fine !), it made me feel like I was doing things the way my mother did, which I emphatically do not want to do ! But the reality is that I'm not her, and my kids are not me and my siblings, and they're all wonderful. I am so lucky to have them.

I am feeling happy and optimistic today and no longer regret my third. My problems are with my own failings, which I will work on as best I can to give my kids the best of me.

Just give your children your own authentic self.

Stop trying to do better than your mother.

Stop trying to give your children the best of you.
Nobody is 100% all the time. You are allowed to give your children a half arsed effort if that's all you can muster.

Be kind to yourself.
Addressing the anxiety that's consuming you is the kindest thing you can do both for yourself and for your children.

Start each day with a clean slate. A reset.

Remind yourself daily that you are doing our best with the hand you've been dealt, and that that's all anyone can expect of you.

Your children don't need the world from you they just need you and everything else comes later. They just need loving parents, a stable home life and food in their bellies. Lots of outdoor time as a family. No one needs holidays and fancy gifts and lots of treats. Your kids need your time, efforts, love, affection, attention. Your older children are blessed to have a younger siblings. You definitely need to speak to someone to pass this because I don't think it's a normal feeling to have, surely where you are there are free mental health care programs you can connect with, talk to your gp and ask. I'm sorry your feeling this way and I hope you get through it soon.