Do you ever feel you wish you had stopped at 2? I feel like I'm failing them all as there are too many of them.

[sweetkitty]

Well I only have four, they are 8, nearly 7, 4 and 2. We have no family support so it's just DP and I. DP works long hours and I suppose on paper earns a good wage but I always feel poor.

I feel our selfishness of wanting four is majorly impacting on the quality of life our DC have. Like today they are on holiday I'm at home with them, we can't go anywhere as we have no money, I can only drive locally due to anxiety issues, it would be a nightmare taking them anywhere on the train myself even if I had the money.

Everything is a struggle, going anywhere is hard work, I dread it, we can't eat put even places like Pizza Hut is about £40 for us. I look at people with two and they are away to the cinema then for a nice meal out. They seem a lot better dressed than mine, I'm always scrimping to buy them clothes. I would love to take them on holiday or overnight but it's not going to happen.

I feel like I have failed them and I know it's going to get worse as they become teenagers.

I can't go back to work as childcare would be a nightmare, financially and logistically for example school holidays. If there were only two I could have been at work at least part time by now.

I know we chose to have four and its a bit like shut up you've made your bed and all that. I love them all dearly and wouldn't be without them of course but have I made their childhood rubbish by having so many. Nevermind spreading ourselves so thin. DP and I never get a night out, we are both knackered and our relationship is rubbish.

We are supposed to be getting an extension but that's up in the air so at present DS is still in a cot with us, he has nowhere for his clothes or toys. DD2 sleeps on a toddler bed too small for her as that's all the can fit in her room, the other 2 are in bunks. Lack of space is awful just now (wonders how people managed in ye olden days).

I know I should be grateful for my four beautiful, healthy children and need a good kick up the backside. It's just so bloody hard right now.

Yellowtip - much respect 8

Umm - yes I remember you five now you crazy person, only joking they are great aren't they? I just feel like such a bad, crap shouty mum just now.

Randommess - not much bigger then, I honestly don't know why our ceiling hasn't caved in due to all the stuff we have in the loft. No w can't convert it, looked into that one!

You need to be ruthless and declutter and plan your storage. Like I said we put 2 rails in the wardrobes, they had the largest bedroom we squish in the middle one (even with a superking bed!).

Underbed storage essential, high chest of draws, super tall trofast etc etc

What have you got in your loft that your really don't need to keep...

Clothes and toys can be picked up so cheaply 2nd hand just keep the absolute minimum and sell/chuck the rest it will make you feel so much better and in control.

Oh I am the queen of decluttering, am doing all of that already. Every inch of the house is utilised for space, it's Expedit storage I am the Queen of, you would not believe the stuff I have crammed into a tiny box room. We would take the middle room but our own bedroom isn't that big and we have the en suite in there and don't want the DDs messing about in there. If we put DD2s bed in the biggest room to make room for. DS in the box room tenure would be no room for anything else in the room.

Im one of 5 and have lots of happy childhood memories about spending time with my mum and siblings, I dont remember ever eating out or going to cinema. Make some popcorn and snuggle together on the sofa watching a DVD - call it movie night, everybody happy!
Look into triple sleepers, might allow 3 in bigger room and baby in smallest room.
Start getting rid of baby stuff you no longer need, sell it on eBay or gumtree.
I'm sure you will work again, it may just be something completely different from what you were doing before

We all have bad times, keep going and enjoy your kids while they are young

Ah I guess that is part of the issue, small house with an ensuite - you'd have been better off with the extra bedroom space. It will be luxurious when you've got the extension done.

Sorry if this is really nosy but why can't you get a job in the field in which you trained? Can we help with a bit of lateral thinking?

(I have 4 and struggle to find a job now that we have relocated with dh's job which will pay enough to cover not just the part-time care that would be required for dd but the after school and holiday care for the others).

That said, wouldn't be without them .

Hi I have 6 kids. Yes it is difficult and expensive and crowded . We manage somehow but the kids all understand - even our 6 yr old - that we don't have endless money and that we have to room share.

Some tips - apologies if they have been said up thread I've only read OP -

Ebay everything you can and buy clothes second hand.

I am on the tesco clubcard scheme which I have found invaluable for treats - meals out and days out especially if you are very careful and spend the vouchers giving double points.

Space - there is no easy answer ahere and you will find that you shift the kids around due to their differing dynamics as they grow - we did . But get that toddler out of your bedroom. You and dh need some private spac to releax.

Chores - your dcs are young now but when they get bigger do give them chores around the house. It will make the house run smoother and give you less to do freeing you all up for more fun. For eg we have chores for dishes washing, cleaning kitchen table after meals, tidying lounge and sweeping kitchen floor. Perhaps your oldest two could help out ?

Right in answer to the questions, I had to move originally for work but have since moved back, there are no jobs where we are.

Move the toddler to where, there is nowhere? The box room as DD2 in it and all her and DSs toys and clothes, you would be pushed to get one single bed in it nevermind anything else (why do people build these fairly homes with teeny boxrooms)?

The older two do help out a lot even if it's just clearing up after themselves.

I've had a bad day with them all today, have done loads of nice things, we had a spa day where we painted nails/make up/massages which wasn't easy with a 2 yo about then the girls put on a show which ended in fighting then we played lego which was hell, just me breaking up fights, now DS has wrecked DD2s room, she don't mad and tried to hit him, she's screaming the place down and the little two are fighting again. I've given up having a MN break for my sanity.

Can you put bunk beds in the box room. Not taking up more floor space, and you get your bedroom back?

No way of putting bunk beds in, the only way they would fit is along one wall and that would be a squeeze, they would also be up against and block out the window. We would also be only able to get one chest of drawers in, the room is that small.

The extension is back on again costing 4K more (there goes the contingency)!

Late to this, but I remember you as we have the same gaps - my number four is 2.5 and BOY is he being very two at the moment. I also feel that we should be better off given what DH is earning, but it all goes somehow and I do feel a bit resentful of my friends with fewer children and better houses/holidays etc.

HOWEVER, my children tell me all the time what a lovely Mummy I am (even though I think I'm cross, shouty Mummy a lot of the time), and I know that they are happy and healthy. I know that I will go back to work at some point - I am doing the odd consultancy project at the moment but it's not often enough to make me feel as though I'm swelling the family coffers, but it keeps my hand in my industry.

It WILL get easier and your children won't remember the new clothes they had or the gadgets - they'll remember having lots of love and siblings and chaos in the house :0)

Hi sweetkitty. Just read your post and also saw that someone mentioned tutoring as a work option. I was in a similar position to you (although only have two kids!) - have a science degree and after having our first, we moved somewhere I would never get a research job. I now tutor and it fits in wonderfully around the kids. It's hard work at first, but rewarding and you get all school holidays off! I never had it down as a career option and fell into it by accident, but now I'm doing it full time (dd2 started school this year) and would never want to go back to any other sort of work! As you have a science degree and depending on your subject/home area, you could be earning £25 plus per hour for A-level. Good Chemistry and Physics tutors are like gold dust!

They may well be poorer than their peers now, but I am one of three, and if I fall out with a sibling, I gang up with the other one to pull the third into line. Or they do it to me.

Whereas my friends, most of whom have just the one sibling, are devastated by fallings out., they are bereft. I am never bereft of siblings.

We were poorer than my peers, despite dad having a good wage, but to be honest it didn't really matter, because by the time I was old enough to feel it, I was old enough to understand that another child added costs that couldn't just be ignored.

Hello sweet kitty.
I remember you from the property topic (was becaroo then!) and you were always so supportive and kind I am so sorry you are feeling so down.
Wrt clothes...I get lots if my boys clothes from e bay...have had some beautiful jeans and jackets for ds1 aged 9. And frankly I could ds2 in a flour sack and he wouldn't care!
I also stock up when sainsbos etc have their sales.
We don't eat out much at all...maybe on hols....and the kids don't miss it.
We are members of the national trust and so for the price of a picnic we have had some great days out and upto Xmas there are lots of really lovely things going on...
We holiday in the uk and have done for years and will do for the foreseeable future! Kids love where we go and look forward to it each year.
And remember...kids don't need material things. They need love and food. Anything else is extra and great but dont sweat it if it doesn't happen regularly or at all.
X

I am expecting number 5 and like you have no family help and hubby works long hours. We are always skint, (never go on holiday, meals out, to the cinema etc) but do have enough to pay the essential bills.

I grew up with my Aunt and Uncle as one of seven children. We had five girls in one room with clothes all stuffed into the airing cuboard and two boys in the other, with their wardrobe in the hall. We had nothing except love and none of us ever felt we missed out. We have all loved that we come from a big family, which is why I wanted a big family myself.

I'm sure you love all your children and they know it. Stop beating yourself up by trying to provide everything which you see other people (often unnecessarily) buying their children.

Thanks everyone it's heartening so many of you remember me. I took the DC to the soft play today (the cheaper one that's half the price), I had planned on taking them to shh McDs but it was shut. DD2 asked if we could go to the one in the next town I said no Mum can't drive there, yes you can why not? How can I tell her I'm scared to drive there? Feel so pathetic and ridiculous.

We're in Scotland btw so Highers not A levels, my degree is Biology based. Tutoring would be afterschool which is impossible as DPs not back until 6pm and there's the afterschool stuff.

I keep thinking about doing night shifts at something??? taking the DC to school then sleeping

I know I need to get over it, we chose to have four.

X posts NAR congrats on number 5. We won't be having a fifth another pregnancy would kill me the last one was bad enough but I can see the attraction

It's not about shutting up and putting up, it's about trying to get over the sense that everything is blue and negative. I've been there lots of times.

I think there are some things you just need to tackle head on, like the money/work issue and invest some energy in it. I think having more money would solve things like affording treats, days out and the lack of space.

I know how you feel about days out, I still do not take all of mine (same ages as yours) out on my own although I am going to try this half term. For me it stems from bad experiences when they were a bit younger, like being stuck in the middle of a park/town etc with a screaming baby, a tantruming toddler and two young ones running off (panic!).

But this is going to get better, I find that my nearly 8 year old now is quite good at holding hands with the youngest one for example if I ask her to. It still doesn't stop me from feeling anxious but I think if I have a good experience this half term when I take them all out it might be a new start for me too. Good luck with it all, it is hard when they are all so close together..

I would try some tutoring as mentioned. If your dh is home at 6pm, then you have just gone 6pm until 10pm to tutor. Iv no idea on prices in Scotland but in the south is approx £25-40 per hour depending on level. So even at £20 that's £70 an eve min. (£350 a week if 5 eves). With No childcare needed at these hours its a nice extra

What about becoming a childminder. With two children at home you could still have one other under 5 full time as well as a few school age before and after school. And unlimited over 8s. As soon as your 4 year old starts school that would increase to two under 5s plus your own toddler.

Are you absolutely sure there is no work you can do with your degree? There may at least be some part time work that you can do from home ( evenings/ weekends.

The cost of childcare should be out balanced by income. So you mention £28 per afternoon for 4 children. Surely between 9am- 5/6pm pick up you would earn more than £28. Anything over is a bonus and profit.

Thanks for the ideas I don't think tutoring would work tbh I dong know enough about the coursework, could only do one subject and DP might be back at 6 but a lot IV the time he's not, plus there's the afterschool clubs some of them don't finish until 8pm which would mean DP dragging the little two out past their bedtime to do pick ups. Plus we're in an area where I doubt more than one or two parents would actually pay for a tutor.

Childminding I looked into but I want to get out the house not stuck in if and going to the same toddler groups etc as I've been doing for 8 years and what about school hols? It's bad enough with four but another or two would really be impossible.

I know I sound negative but over the years I've looked at a lot of options, it's things like school drop off there's no one to do it if I don't. It seems there's obstacles to everything.

Orange berries - yes it's tough going anywhere with four, the older 3 are fine now but DS is at that not wanting to sit in the buggy stage but I can't have him walking and the 3 girls, DD1 is great with DD3 holding her hand helping her across roads etc but I know that you mean about having meltdowns in the middle of town.

Sweetkitty, I know your name, I think from a long time back. I too have 4, no family within 200 miles and my husband works away most weeks (last week being spectacular with him in Dubai and youngest 2 having croup!!). There are days that it does just seem blooming tough.
I too used to have a huge issue with driving, think it was because I'd been living abroad and not driven for 3 years. I used only drive to Sainsbury's and back (about half a mile!) but then I just got to the stage where I wanted to get out more. I started by going to something like a local wood where I knew there was loads of parking so I could get there and not be stressed. Then I joined a new class with the little ones that was a bit further away and made myself go and had lots more fun walking around the shops or bakery afterwards in a new area. Now, honestly, I would drive anywhere (except abroad, still working on that!). I've driven all over London, down country lanes to Devon, up to Liverpool, everywhere. It's all about setting a realistic target, taking a deep breath and going for it. Also, invest in a satnav, then even if you get lost (which was my big fear really), it will always tell you how to get there!
I was speaking to my Dad just last week and he was asking if I remembered when his company nearly went bust when we were about 11. We had to move to a much smaller house and we didn't buy anything for 2 years, no holidays, no going out, etc. I had no recollection whatsoever! I obviously remember moving house but never realised we were going without as I had my mum and dad always with us and my annoying younger brother! I think we think kids will notice things that they really don't.
Also, I think there's always 'the perfect mother' out there and we are always hard on ourselves. I have days where all of mine are shouting and I have an 18 month old boy who is a complete nutter and I do shout when it all gets too much, it does bother me but then I'm sure that everyone does it at some point. We can only try our best.
The job I have thought about is a teaching assistant. Pay is ordinary but it's only one academic year training (so about 10 months), all holidays off (my greatest issue too) and not too much stress to take home. Just an idea!
Hope it is getting a bit better for you.

When I was little there was only 2 of us and we didn't have much money and it didn't bother me then and still doesn't now.
The only thing I ever wanted was a baby sister!

I have 5 children and things are never perfect I know that.
Remember you child have each other, even though they fight sometimes they will hopefully be close friends in the near future.
There was a thread on here once about best memories of being little and nearly everyone said it was having siblings.

I did feel bad that my children don't always have all the material things some of the other children have but one day of the showy-offy-rich mums said she wishes she could do all the things I do with my children. Her kids have EVERYTHING xbox's, iphone, gold plated toast for breakfast
I guess we all feel bad, you are not a good mum unless you feel guilty about something!

I agree with so worn out. I have 5 and love it. We do walks and countryside days out, Pound cinema club etc. UK holidays, supermarket or ebay clothes. We have 3 beds and manage fine as we have the smallest room and DS and DD have big rooms to share with triple bunks in for when friends sleepover. I only felt guilt once when DC5 was newborn and had severe reflux and we got no sleep and felt letting others down regarding time for them but once he grew out of it it went back to lovely but chaotic.