<very long and thorough> Some advice please from Mums and Dads alike. Need to get my head around this.

[IsolatedAndAlone]

I have had to namechange for this as my usual name is very well used on these forums. Some parts of the post will be rather vague (children's sex/age for example, as they could identify me, last thing I want is dh finding out how I feel from a forum)

I believe I will sound selfish, please don't hold that against me as it's partly why I'm here. :(:(

I am mid 20's, my dh is mid 20's. We have 3 children (2 boys and a girl, youngest is 1yr, oldest 6yrs).
I am desperately broody for another. As you can probably predict, my dh is not. Majorly not. But he will not discuss it further, only to tell me what ISN'T his reason for not wanting another.

For me, the selfish bit is I have no good reason for wanting another, I want my little one to have a brother or sister to grow up with as already they are left out. And I just want one. As I said, very poor reason's, I wish I could turn this broodiness off. I fear it will eventually come between me and dh as already I find myself unreasonably resenting his decision. That said, there is no obvious reason not to have another child either. (Reason's stated further down)

He won't talk about it. I had to battle with him when discussing ttc#3 and I ended up with mild temporary depression from it and I don't think I could go through that again. Plus, whilst I was pregnant I was so sure that I wouldn't want anymore I promised this was it. So it's me moving the goalposts. I never dreamed in a million years that I would feel like this again, and so strongly. I have been broody since about a fortnight before I gave birth last year, I just never said anything to him - I don't want to upset him.
There have been times in the last 6 or 7 weeks that I have been intending to speak to him about it but then he comes home in such a good mood that I don't want to spoil it. Or he'll have had a terrible day and I don't want to make it worse. Or he could be in a foul mood and I don't want to make him angry. I just don't know how long I can keep it bottled up now tho, the tears have started when I see birth announcements, it's a constant thought occupying my mind.

Financially we are ok, he has a good management job which has enabled me to give up work. Our children have new clothes (mostly from George or TU), I buy/sell bits on eBay and we do fine. We don't exactly go without.
We can afford holidays, just not every year, we tend to do daytrips to different places (zoo, adventure parks, seaside etc) so the kids still do things throughout the year rather than just a week. As well as occasional weekends away with family as they live on the east coast seaside.

Here is all the (some vague I apologise) info on a plain sheet:-

• DH has an illness, unpleasant at times but manageable. He developed this when our eldest was 5m old. He will soon be starting methrotrexate for it. This will mean if I somehow become pregnant, it will end with a mandatory abortion according to his specialist (metho is apparently used in abortions and can cause birth defects). He says his illness/medication is not the reason for not wanting another.

• Money is ok, we're not rich but not poor so I count us lucky. We buy new and second hand to get by. We shop at Sainsbury's (basic's mainly mind). We have a joint mortgage.

• We have a nice car, but this will have to be changed if we were to have another child as it is only a 5 seater.

• We have the space, just. An extra bedroom would be nice but is not essential. We live in a large 3 bed mid-terrace, we have a double driveway and a very long rear garden. The bedrooms are a good size, one is significantly smaller, but still big enough for a single bed and cotbed - a high sleeper bed is on my daughters wishlist which is a good idea for more space. The second bedroom will be kitted out with bunkbeds soon for our boys and there is easily enough room in there for another set let alone a cot. This is besides wardrobe space.

Master bedroom is a good size too.

• Dh's father doesn't want us to have anymore, dh listens avidly to him. Dh's mum says go for it. (not that this matters greatly but still...). FIL has told dh to go book a vasectomy, which I talked him out of. In fact fil went and got the snip days after his second child was born, mil has never forgiven him as she wasn't 'finished'. The rest of his family (well some of) have 4+ children, his Nan had 15! Two of his Aunt's have had 6.

• I'm happy to go back to work if that will ease dh's stress. I know he worries about money as he is the only worker in our household now - it's him that doesn't want me to go to work.

• I have saved all of our baby things, save a few clothing items that I've sold on eBay. We wouldn't need to buy a thing (although probably would but a few 'special bits' anyway). Possibly would need a carrycot and car seat for pushchair (Luna Truffle) but they're cheap enough on eBay, about £20 each.

• I have saved all my maternity things, so wouldn't need to buy any. (can stick to this one easily enough as I have looaads)

Please please advise me. I feel so guilty for bottling this up but I just don't feel like I can talk to him about it, he just clams up and gets angry. Which gets me angry.

The longer this goes on, the more resentment I'm going to harbour so I need to do something about this. I love my husband dearly, and I wish so hard that I could change the way I feel because either way it seems one of us will be unhappy. We both adore our children, and we are good parents, although perhaps we started younger than most would agree with (first baby was an accident in our late teens - the happiest accident of our lives)
I would never trick him, although I'm ashamed to say the thought crossed my mind. I believe a baby should be made with love and trust.

I'm so sad, I don't want to end up with depression again as that was horrid, crying every waking hour... I want to be able to enjoy my family, I adore my children and I am grateful that I have been able to have children - I do understand exactly how lucky I am to be a mother when so many ladies are unable to even become pregnant. This in turns adds to my guilt that I should be happy!

If you read to the end, congratulations! You need a bloody medal!

Isolated -- that link has the only reference I found to avoiding getting a partner pregnant while using methotrexate.

"Pregnancy and lactation are considered the only absolute contraindications. Both women and men of reproductive age should use birth control during methotrexate therapy and after discontinuation of therapy for one month in women and three months in men. Some physicians believe that alcohol consumption in any amount should be an absolute contraindication because no data suggest a safe consumption level." This is from the link on that site, but while all the other warnings are accompanied by a reference, the warning about using contraception for both men and women does not have one. Very strange for such a dire warning, because you would expect studies to accompany the advice as they do for the other advice. Even the warning against alcohol consumption comes with the statement that there are no studies that show a safe amount of alcohol that can be taken with MTX.

So while it states it, it does not cite any studies to back up the warning.

I think that warning against conception by partners of men using MTX would be front and centre if it was a real risk, on every MTX site, given the prevalence of suits in the US over all sorts of birth defects since Thalidomide. Juries in the US award enormous sums for birth defects caused by medicines.

WRT playing together and having a large gap -- I have 5 DCs; DD, DS, DD, DD, DD. DS is a bit left out, always has been.

The answer to the problem of who will play boyish games and keep DS company was friends, sports and boy scouts.

Oldest DD was similarly a bit cut off from the rest of the DDs. She was five when the next sister was born. The youngest three DDs are each three years apart. They have gone through periods when they fought like cats and dogs and others when they have got along, but mostly they have developed friendships in school and the family hasn't been as much a source of fun and companionship for them. DD1 and DS played together nicely until their interests diverged, when she was about 8 and he was 5.

There is an 11 year gap from oldest to youngest. DD1 has become something of a 'glamorous aunt' figure to the younger girls, taking them to get their nails done, to the cinema, shopping. She enjoys it and so do they.

I really appreciate all the answers I have received on this thread. I have located my nearest mum+toddler group which is only 20 minutes walk away. I've decided to drop the baby issue for a few months (or as long as I can) before telling dh, admittedly I'm half hoping the broodiness stays, half hoping it buggers off - but still this is progress. Without the extra info on MTX I wouldn't have been able to even seriously consider this as I was counting down until the medication started, time was running out. But since that in fact can be worked around, it brings new options.

If in say, 3 months the feeling hasn't changed then I will raise this issue with my husband. I am not the first to have this maternal longing for another child and I'm certain I won't be the last. If it happens then it will be because both dh and I want it to, not just me.

Thank you all so very much. It's good to know that if I need advice I can come here and get an unbiased response. :)

Forgot to add that I'm intending to double use the toddler group; first as a distraction for me and second as a social activity for dc3.

It may have been obvious but just wanted to explain.
:)

Just wanted to say that giving yourself a break for 3 months sounds very sensible to me. You've clearly thought things through carefully and I think showing this thread to DH if you decide to bring the issue up might be a good idea.

You do have time on your side, not like us 30-somethings. I have a friend with 2 teenagers, 8 y/o and a toddler. Her family is great and it works for them. There's no need to rush into something now.

Hope it works out for you.

hi, i read your post, and do sympathise. I'd love to have more, and feel thwarted, however there are lots of logical and rational reasons why not in my case, and this makes it easier to accept. I have some ideas for you to consider.

1. Even if you were to have no 4, it is very likely you would still feel the same powerful desire to have more. If your partner understands that this feeling you have is not going away, you may get more support from him in overcoming it.

1. The more you calculate/ plan/ fantasise about the logistic of a larger family, the harder it is to let go of the idea. You are feeding your brooding instincts by working out, and rationalising to yourself how workable it will be. It's not like you need to justify to anybody how you would manage a bigger family... but it's part of the mental trap, which reinforces the feeling that it is the only thing that will make you happy.

1. If you can open up to your partner and tell him that you were mistaken, that you still feel the same, perhaps he will be considerate enough of your feelings to give you the logical, rational reasons why not that will help you to accept your family size. He could understand that the urge to procreate is not a choice women make, it is an instinct which drives. If you can get him to accept this, then the onus is on him to give you the reason why not.

1. did you seek treatment for your depression last time? if not, it may be that you can get some support to help overcome it if it becomes a problem again. don't allow the fear that you may become depressed again focus your mind on the only way to prevent depression being pregnancy. it isn't.

1. you mention going back to work in the future. when you do decide to go back to work, your outlook will probably be less family centred, and you may well find that your feelings lessen. also i have seen on mumsnet many people mention that their broodiness lessens as their little ones get bigger. I have found this to be the case.

I don't know if any of these ideas help, but i hope that this thread, with all of the perspectives the other mumsnetters have put on, has been positive and useful for you. all the best.

Just chipping in re. metho; my DH is on this and was very sternly told by all the HCPs involved he must come off it for 3 (pref. 6) months before we ttc DC2. This is to ensure it is all out of his system as sperm is apparently renewed every 3 months; this is the advice and I am sure your DH would have been told the same so don't think the poor man is lying! No advice on your dilema, sorry. We are still trying to decide on DC3!