St James’s Place.

[ZealAndArdour]

Hi,

Just wondering about this company. I understand they’re quite legit and well known.

My dad (not vulnerable, self employed, works still, only vulnerability is my siblings death a few years ago and he lives alone) is very shrewd and has always looked after his assets, saved very hard and tried to make sure we’d all be okay in the future. He’s been using them for several years for various things; consolidating pensions, setting up an asset preservation trust, etc.

But he seems to be in quite regular contact with his advisor (I’ve met the guy to sign paperwork and have some things explained to me, he seems nice enough) and has also received a lot of referred business from my dad making recommendations to friends, etc. The advisor is now taking my dad and some of his pals on quite fancy days out to thank them for the referred custom and just seems to still be very much involved in everything, I thought the things he’d been engaged for were sort of contact-Intense to begin with while they were set up and then might just be yearly reviews of everything. But my dad will still get calls from this guy quite frequently, and he’ll say “oh I’m not answering that, it’s Charles, he probably wants me to invest some more money, he can wait”.

I’m just wondering if this is a normal level of continuous involvement with the financial advisor, I know my dad has good pensions and a respectable portfolio of assets, but unless I’m totally in the dark I don’t think we’re talking millionaire status.

Could there be anything shady going on? Is the financial advisor meant to be in contact this much and taking them out?

My dad would also like me to meet with him to discuss my pensions and assets and tbh I just find the smarming all a bit much, and this level of contact too intense to maintain.

Thanks.

This is turning into an SJP ad. I’m out

I don't blame you! Only one person on this thread is buying the ads though and that is the person who works for them!

Those reviews don't mean a real lot. Just people being asked by their planner to leave a nice review.

I'd rather look at factual fund performance and changes comparisons than John & Janet leaving a nice few words after they've been taken out for dinner.

https://portfolio-adviser.com/st-jamess-place-accounts-for-63-of-underperforming-dog-fund-assets-in-bestinvest-report/

“St James’s Place (SJP) topped Bestinvest’s list of underperforming fund managers as global strategies suffered in the latest ‘Spot the Dog’ report.

The biannual report, which highlights funds that have lagged their benchmark by at least 5% over three consecutive 12-month periods, identified four SJP funds of over £1bn assets among the top five underperformers by size.

While the wealth manager accounted for 63% of the £46.2bn total assets named in the report”

Looking forward to hearing how a St James’s Place advisor justifies their fees based on this performance.

My dad uses them. The advisor was very good when my mum died in helping moving pensions and investments. He has really great advice. My dad is not great at deciding investments himself, but his advisers are honest.

The challenge with SJP is that, however honest and well meaning their advisers are, they're only allowed to sell SJP funds.

There's lots of good independent financial advisers that will charge much lower fees and can pick whole of market funds.

@sep135

Inaccurate. Clients can have whole of market funds if they invest via the SJP DFM Service, Rowan Dartington. Just shows how misinformed you are.

https://www.rowan-dartington.co.uk/

Yep, and the other part of your business? I say your business as I can't imagine any other basis for your views.

@sep135

its not a view it’s a fact. Clients can invest in whole of market if they want via the DFM service.

What the charges on that?

A DFM service is only really suitable for a small proportion of wealthy clients - so really not all that much of a solution for the rest.

A small proportion of clients I should think and only if the demonstratively need the input of an investment manager or a bespoke service or again you're selling an expensive service that isn't needed.

@HauntedPencil

You are right. Wealthy people need a wealth management service and are happy to pay for it whereas poor people should stick to cheap DIY platforms.

So what are the charges? I notice you’re very slow on that response…

I’m pretty sure like all DFMs the charges are on a sliding scale and negotiable depending on the amount they manage on your behalf.

And yet you’re so well informed on everything else, how odd you don’t know enough on this to post.
Perhaps illustrate a £500k portfolio to start us off.

@Applesaarenttheonlyfruit

standard DFM fees across the board tend to be 1% plus vat plus fund costs so you are looking at 2% all in but it depends if your adviser can negotiate lower levels.

plus adviser charge?

I don't want to post 'out of turn' and my experience of SJP is rather old, but my hubby was very well paid IT chap. He did investments through SJP (not sure where he'd got their name from but he was IT within finance). When he was earning vv good money we had young man, an advisor round several times. Very friendly. Seemingly our best interests at heart etc. Then hubby's contract ended. Recession. No mega salary. Meeting arranged, but our advisor was 'unavoidably detained'. Rearrange meeting, no show because he'd had a car accident. Meeting rearranged. No show, because his Grandmother had died. Meeting rearranged, no show because...I can't recall but it was feeble. Maybe this chap had a run of bad luck but not even a call to apologise/give excuse for a no show.
I wouldn't trust them with a barge-pole.

Ah ... so now we are turning our noses down at people whose portfolios are too small to warrant an expensive SJP discretionary fund management service, and calling them "poor people" as well.

How lovely.

I think that was sarcastic

@Applesaarenttheonlyfruit

All in

It’s very telling that investors do best when they don’t have to invest only in SJP products. What % of SJP’s customers are invested through the DFM platform?

I m often asked about SJP. I keep
Popping back to this thread to see if I am able to glean any more accurate information about SJP.
@BrokerG yoh you are really not covering yourself in glory here!
Over invested perhaps?

In my opinion, if you get a decent 'partner' and are inexperienced then being a client of SJP is better than being a client of no one. You've only got to read comments on this thread to realise that. They are one of several vertically integrated firms that offer advice, products and investments and will generally only offer advice within their own product range unless they're own range will not meet your needs they'll go to a panel.

My issue with SJP is that somehow they have managed to circumnavigate the changes to remuneration brought in by RDR. Previous to 2012 an adviser only need be level 4 qualified and was generally paid by commission. So a £100,000 investment bond would pay, say 6% initial commission and 0.5% each year. The provider would pay this, but you would pay a higher annual cost to cover the fees and suffer an exit fee to claw back the commission you paid. You paid in the end, but it wasn't clear. Now that practice is banned for investment business so initial fees and ongoing fees must be disclosed, and justified. But SJP have encashment penalties and initial fees based on %ages and buried in product fees rather than base it on the work involved and tend to be high for rather basic cash investment stuff.

They just seem to get away with that stuff that is just not practice in the rest of the industry. Yes an IFA will charge, and sometimes it will be more than you think is fair, but how much does a mechanic charge by the hour for their labour? Should an adviser not be compensated for meeting with you, analysing your risk profile, your existing arrangements, your circumstances, your objectives, and make a detailed written recommendation to you as well as having staff to process paperwork and answering the phone? Just because its less than £200k being invested, the diligence still needs to be done. Its just the way that SJP do it with exit fees and higher initial fees buried at product level.

A company that recommends a full discretionary portfolio and ongoing advice will be more expensive, but that client will have objectives that require that level of service, access to two professionals and a bespoke portfolio - a saville row suit costs more than an off the peg one, even one with fancy labels. The problem is that SJP are charging saville row prices (opaquely too) and providing of the peg solutions that aren't really even that competitive for performance.