Risk of twins vs risk of childlessness

[CatnipMouse]

Hi all. Just been 'discussing' this with the other half. He is adamant that twins would be 'disastrous' and wants to avoid any possibility of this by sticking religiously to one transferred embryo during IVF. I think that twins is a whole lot better than no kids at all (neither of us have any children).

We were lucky enough in our first round of IVF to get 3 nice blasts. I had just one put back although on the day the clinic gave me the option of having two replaced. I went for just one as he felt so strongly about twins. It didn't work out. The other two are in the freezer for the FET cycle I have just started. We can't seem to agree on whether to go for one or two this time and in a future fresh round (I am pessimistic about success chances for this frozen round).

I wonder what other people think about transferring two? He is convinced that twins="the end of life as you know it" and would be overwhelmingly negative, is this view widely shared? (I promise I am not exaggerating his views) I do not mean any offence to families with twins, it is not how I see things.

And have any of you opted for a single embryo transfer, knowing that it is reducing your overall chance of pregnancy a bit?

I have four blastos in the freezer and whilst I don't agree with your DH's view of twins (which is extreme!) I will be having them replaced singly. Each blasto has a good chance of survival and I want to give myself 4 good separate chances (if all 4 survive the defrost). I would only replace more than one if some of them were not good quality embryos.

I can understand your desire to increase your chances of pregnancy but for me, I want to do that by having as many separate FETs as possible.

Also it says in our literature that we are at higher risk than natural pregnancies of a monozygotic twin pg (embryo splits in two) even if only one embryo is replaced. How does your DH feel about it happening naturally?

Good luck to you whatever happens.

My sister had a single embryo transfer and she still had twins...

If he thinks twins would be worse than no children at all you might need a serious conversation.

We had ET this morning and had two blasts put in at the recommendation of our clinic.

Just to see the look on his face on the way home:
Me: you do realise that there is a chance we could have quadruplets?
DH: that would be the end of life [is this some kind of man talk?]
Me: don't worry, my mother would have to move in to help us!

Priceless.

Seriously, I would be pleased with any pregnancy, would actually be delighted to have twins, even though it would be harder work and perhaps more worrying. Odds are against me as I'm 39, but hopefully this gives us a chance.

Blastocysts are quite a bit more likely to lead to twins so don't rule out quads! Good luck whatever the outcome!

Bloody hell blackandwhitecat and inamay quads actually would be terrifying. Good luck but I hope your Mum doesn't have to move in with you...

Galinda did they give you better odds than me? (15-20% IF they thaw) I think if they have been vitrified then they have a better chance of surviving the defrost and of implanting too. I don't think mine have been vitrified though. I should find out. I feel like this whole frozen cycle is just another barrier I have to get past before another fresh go to be honest.

Yes I know that a single one could split into identical twins, he knows that too, he's not happy with the idea but realises that there isn't anything that can be done about it - it's choosing to increase the risk of twins that he has a problem with.

If he truly thinks 2 babies would be worse than having none, I'd be asking whether he really wants any at all. Is he going along with the treatment because its what you want? I find it hard to believe that anyone who was really struggling with the idea of infertility would choose none over 2.

Can the third be kept for another round or do they both need to be thawed? If you have the time, money and energy for another two separate rounds using what you already have then go for two individual. If not, insist on two implanted so the third isnt wasted.

Ah yes they did give me good odds with my blastos tbh, they were vitrified so 85% chance of thaw and I'm 30 and they are grade 4AA so I have about a 45% chance of pg. I have just seen you are late 30s so maybe very different odds as different circumstances.

Wishing you the best of luck

That's rough that you have to thaw both frosties at the same time. I was allowed to thaw mine separately. Having two transferred makes more sense then.

As a matter of interest, what odds did your clinic give you for success of a fresh round ET? Were they very different from a FET? I would have thought 20% was about normal for late 30s?

Hi Catnip,

What a dilemma for you...

For what it's worth, I have had four rounds of IVF, all with 2 blastocysts replaced. 2 rounds were successful, and we have 2 singletons. I know its anecdotal, but of all the people I know of who have had IVF (probably a few dozen) most if not all have had 2+ embryos put back, and can only think of one set of twins.

So yes, statistically your chances of having twins increases if you have more than one embryo transferred, but you are more likely to have a singleton.

Both my doctors explained it to me, and in laymans terms (at least how I could understand it :) they said, that having 2 put back can sometimes increase the chances of pregnancy overall... something about the weaker blastocyst helping the stronger one implant.

But I know that many err on side of caution now, particularly if you are young, or it is your first round, as twin pregnancies can pose complications.

Wishing you the best of luck, and the happiest outcome.

Ive had 3 full cycles but only ever had up to 2 embryos to transfer. So transferred 2 each time (day 3) and will have had 2 singletons.
The risk of twins is like 1/5 so not what id call high. We only have very low fert rates so transferring 1 at a time could have been very annoying especially if they didnt defrost well.
I also only know 1 set of ivf twins out of 7 ivf children.
There is 1/80 chance of twins overall anyway.
1/100 chance of downs at 40
There are always things to worry about.
Miscarriage rates of 30% say.

At 39, barring medical reasons, i would go for 2. But then blasts do have a better chance than embryos anyway.
I also feel a bit resentful of hfea forcing the issue a bit, as it was stressful on cycle 2 saying you may only be able to put 1 back only (when there were only 2) and effectively i most likely would have wasted the time on the second fet as neither embryo implanted. I would say though on that cycle i bled on day 12 and later realised my tsh was high so i guess if id done a separate fet the uterine conditions may have been better.
My dp wasnt keen on possibility of twins for dc2 as we then knew how hard it would be, the amount of space and also nursery costs - here its like £54 so twins would have cost more than i earnt. (Not in london)
But it is you going through the emotions, hormones, stress and worry about it working due to age.
I think its reasonable to do a set the first time as you could be really fertile and the ivf solves whatever the issue was.
Also if you are self funding cost of freezing was like £1.4k then you have the fet drugs. Whereas ivf was only like 4-6k anyway.
I think if they want a set policy freezing and fet should be included in ivf pricing itself. As its bad enough to reduce chances let along increase costs

I conceived twins naturally, it is wonderful. Having one baby changes life as you know it, having twins means they have a friend for life! Single embryo could split into two and make identical twins!

I could count on both hands the number of female friends or colleagues I've had over the years who haven't had any children whatsoever, or had children at a time dictated to them, or have been stopped from having sibling(s) for their only child, by their male partner or husband. Many of those relationships did not last or if they did are now full of resentment, and/or just happen to be very unequal when it comes to the power around decision making etc. Interestingly on those occasions when relationships have failed its not uncommon for the man to move straight onto a new relationship and have kids. Unlike men, we do not have an indefinite window to have children. Our time is seriously limited!!

I think only you really know if your partner truly wants children. Like most have articulated, if one really wants children we don't look upon twins as a disaster...it is something we would lovingly embrace.

Also please keep in mind that transferring 2 top quality blastocysts can fail...my cycle just has. I'd very much rather be sat here now knowing I was pregnant with twins rather than having a failed pregnancy test.

Darkchoc, I'm sorry about your cycle. Look after yourself.

Catnip does this help? It's my clinic's stats as opposed to general stats about single transfer/double transfer, but it's some rational numbers to go on.

Cat - chortling about the quadruplets conversation.

Choc

Sorry CHOC :( it sucks. I felt the same when my 3 stickies failed

Triplets would have been omfg - but dp and I knew at once we would prefer 3 then none :(

Just thought I would update - both of the embryos defrosted well, both got put back, and seven days later there was the faintest BFP which is getting stronger every day. Crikey, it worked! Goes to show you don't necessarily have to think positive, I was not at all positive about this round in the slightest. We have to wait until the 7 week mark for a scan to see how things are going, and that will show whether it's a singleton or twins. If it makes it that far of course - still got to be cautious I know.

Very very best wishes to all of you and thank you.

Good luck OP!

Good luck OP Just wanted to add my not quite 4 yr old DTDs are currently sitting with me watching Frozen (goodness knows how many times now), they're delightful, clever funny little girls and as others have said, sometimes singletons can be more work than two!

catnipmouse just read through this whole thread and was going to reply when I saw your latest update - amazing news!!!!!! We had 4 years of IVF and on our successful cycle had 2 blasts transferred, saw 2 heartbeats till around 8/9 weeks then sadly one didn't make it but we are so lucky to have our gorgeous boy. I wish you all the very best, there's so little you can control in this journey to and through parenthood. There's so much joy but so many people experience sadness along the way too...It would be a blessing to have one or two healthy babies, I hope your other half comes round to seeing it that way. I have everything crossed for you, all the best xx

We now want to know how you convinced your partner to implant two! Or did he come round of his own accord? Good luck with everything we are all rooting for you xx

Ha Brightonmum, I didn't really convince him. The clinic froze the embryos together so we couldn't defrost just the one on its own. I'd said that if they both defrosted OK (and the odds were against them both surviving the thaw) that there was no way I could 'discard' one after going through so much to create them in the first place.

Ah I see! Makes total sense to me. Let us know what happens and again I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your brood xx