car seat safety questioned

[MissChief]

Today programme mentioned Which report into safety of child car seats. I think 10 were mentioned as only meeting min standards (crash at 30 mph), they tested in more severe circs and appallingly, found that several top sellers inc from Britax and Mamas and Papas disintegrated on impact at higher speeds. Does anyone have a link
on the complete top 10? Truly awful that such well-regarded brand names are only conforming to the safety miniumums..

xena - I had no idea about the other two until recently, when looking for a booster type chair for DD.

We are currently TTC for #2 and have a baby car seat in the loft. But the more I think about it and the more I hear reports like these, and from my experience of using ISOFIX, I am now very likely to just replace it and buy a new ISOFIX baby seat instead. Just don't feel confidetnt anymore.

hulababy, same thoughts here. what type of ISOFIX baby seats are there being sold at the moment?

Only baby one is the Brtiax one i think. Same for next one up. Think it is only the booster type seats that are produced by anyone else. Will try and find some links.

Britax Cosy Tot Now £130 in Mothercare. Birth - 12/15 months.

Britax Duo - £179 from Mothercare but we paid £150 from a small independent baby shop. From 9 months - 4 years.

Jane Indy Plus approx £100, but we paid £80 again from smaller independent shop. Says from 9 months to 12 years (back comes off so used as booster later). But uses normal car seat so I wouldn't use it until child is a bit older TBH - we got ours when DD was 2y 9m.

Someone else on MN mentioned the Recaro isofix seat - I can't find it on the net yet.

I had heard that Maxi Cosi were going to an Isofix version of their infant seat but have yet to see it anywhere.

Excuse my total pig ignorance, but what is this Isofix business of which you all speak?

I hate both the car seats I have for my kids, I'm never really sure they're safe, and would definitely like to get better ones if I can - I'm just never sure what better ones means though.

Isofix is a rigid fitting for child car seats. In some cars (most new cars) there are two small metal bars between the base of your car's back seat and the back. Very new cars these are visible within a plastic casing; others are hidden beneath the gap where they join.

Isofix child car seats have a gripper type sysem that grips onto these metal bars - making them very easy to fit and less chance of being fitted incorrectly. It also means that they are very secure and safe. They don't rely on a normal seat belt being used to secure the chair.

Isofix is explained here . Basically a car has a fixing hidden behind the cushioning on the back seat and a compatible child seat slots into it, holding it rigid instead of retaining it using the adult seat belt.

tbh I feel that the goalposts of these tests keep moving so what might have been a good seat a few years ago is now perceived as having flaws. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not particuarly helpful to most consumers since how often do child seats get replaced and new cars with Isofix bought. All quite confusing !

For example booster seats and cushions are n't rated highly because of the nature of the design, using the adult belt to retain both child and seat which allows for movement, and rate worse once the back is removed for an older child. However there is supposed to be a law introduced in a couple of years to ensure all children up to about 11 should use one so surely the implication is that even these are safer than none at all. Not sure what is supposed to happen to those who still have cars with only a lap belt in the middle as that also is not ideal with a booster seat.

Am I right in thinking that ISOFIX seats attach to 'attachments' already built into the carseat - not with the adult's belt - but would only work if you had a car new enough to have ISOFIX seats in it? Please correct me if I'm wrong because I find it all rather confusing. My @R@ reg car certainly doesn't

I've got an N reg - would it be too old as well?

Think they have only really become readily available on many cars in last 5 years or so .

The Britax website has a list of cars that have the fittings for their isofix chairs.

But you can see for yourself. I am not sure if an N reg will have them TBH. But anyway. Get into your back seat (not many cars now have isofix in the front seats - to discorgae car seats going in the front). Stick you hand in the gap between the eseat base and the back, and feel around. Isofix fittings are like two thin metal bars. They stick out an inch or so, and then go across horizontal. They are not very long, and they should be two sets (two at each side) of your car.

This is the vehicle compatability list

1997/1998 appears to be first dates in there, but most are 2000 onwards.

TBH, the very first car seats used to be rigid fittings. They used to be drilled into the car - holes in the base and everything. But they then moved to seat belt fittings, rather than a rigid fitting. looks like we are moving back again - but less drastically.

Thanks for all the info guys. My Polo is 1998, and Polos have isofix fitted as standard from 1999. Will just have to start talks with dh about getting a newer car.....but seriously, this has worried me. Will definately check next time I do buy a car to see if it has isofix.

mine has isofix. i checked the other day, it is a new car but it wasnt mentioned in the specs. two slits in the back of the seat with 2 metal bars running through.

i have just been on the link mentioned before and it says that our car and car seat arent compatible and there are no alternatives i have e-mailed them waiting for reply, i dont think i will be able to get a refund as it was a few months ago and cost £120 .

thank you for that link. Very useful!

Is it fair to say though, that if you have fitted your carseat correctly and it is recommended for use in your make/model of car, that there is no need to go out and buy a new car or an ISOFIX carseat?

There should certainly be clearer information made available to consumers over which carseat is compatible with which car and everyone should get a safe installation demo.

Have been wanting to post about this all week (we were in Wales). We have the Concord Trimax X-Line for ds2 (which I bought after extensive research - it was supposed to be safer in a side impact collision..grrrrr )

Does anyone have access to the actual Which? report? Can you tell me what the Concord failed on?

And what should I do? Ds2 is 3.5 and weighs about 3 stone. Do I get a new car seat? If so, which one? Do I hang on to the Concord? Really fed up that these manufacturers are getting away with this - the seats are so expensive, they should do what they are supposed to.

You can get a 30 day free trial to the Which site, which has the full report. You just have to remember to sign off of it before they charge your credit card after the 30 days.

Our car doesn't seem to be compatible with anything on that Britax link.

Thanks, hula.

Hi, moo - your Which correspondent here.

Concord Trimax did really badly on their points system - only scored 27% - the recommended ones got 70+.

"This seat is difficult to strap in the car and performs poorly in any crash. Don't buy."

Good:

Fitting in car
Daily use
Instructions

Average:

Correct use
Comfort

Poor:

Belt routing
Front crash protection
Side crash protection

Bad:

Buckling up.

(Explanation of features:

Front crash and side crash

We simulated crashes with forces that are used in our EuroNCAP tests. These accurately reflect what happens in extreme front and side crashes. Front crashes are more likely to occur than side crashes, so if a seat does badly in our front-crash test, we limit its overall safety rating.

Fitting in car

We tested each seat to see how easy it was to use. With the seats designed for children from birth to about 18 months, a panel of users installed each seat and strapped a crash-test dummy into it. For the other seats, they strapped in a real child. They did this in four cars ? a supermini, a hatchback, a luxury saloon and an MPV. Our experts observed the whole process and considered 40 separate factors, such as how easy the belts were to buckle and whether the seats were correctly installed. They also evaluated the clarity and prominence of the seats? instructions and labels.

Belt routing

We assessed whether there were any problems with the belt routing in the four different types of car.

Buckling up

How easy it was to put the child in and take it out of the car seat.

Daily use

This is an assessment of how easy the cover of the seat is to clean and refit and also whether there are any sharp edges to the seat.

Correct use

This indicates how well the seat is designed to minimise the potential for incorrect or inappropriate installation and use.

Total score

This ignores price and is based on: safety 60%, ease of use 40%.)

Oh buggerama, Janh, that's really bad isn't it? Thanks for all that though. Can you find me a really good one now please - not too expensive, for 3.5 years upwards? I suppose I'd better do the trial subscription to Which? Very peed off

marthamoo, I'm in a similar position - just found out from the Which report that I've got one of the real duds - Britax Trio. we bought it because it was the only one in the shop (large Mothercare world) that was suitable for ds1 - who was then nearly 3 but still less than 15kg. he is STILL less than 15 kg, which is the start point for many of the next stage seats - and I'm at a loss as to what I shoudl get for him.
Does anyone else know what is the best bet for a 3 plus year old, too big for the second stage seat but not weighing 15kg yet?