Real Nappies aren't worth the hassle??

[Magscat]

This was on the BBC news this morning.

As a cotton nappy devotee I can't believe they are saying that disposables are not much worse than cotton - just doesn't make sense.

Any other thoughts

No point fighting about study design when you don't have the study to analyse.

Play nicely now.

No, the study still isn't on the News section of the Enviornment Agency's Web site.

(Here ).

here

Except itaint loading on my machine
Maybe they are still working on it

Thanks Hub - agree we need the report. Shall we start bombarding the BBC/Env Agency with email until they publish it?

BTW - "polish the car" - when do you get time for that!!

all I have to say is

harrumph.

actually, no, I want to see the study, but the fact that they talked about the energy used "in washing and drying" suggests they assume everyone uses the drier with every load. which is silly.

and I wonder if they remembered to analyse every bit of energy used to create a disposable - from energy used in making raw materials to energy used in all the extra lorry loads of nappies?

hey, tarantula... smart digging... how did you find it ?

LOL: This is going to be like a pack of frenzied journos ripping through the Budget at record-breaking speed to make the earliest TV report !!!!

OK: I'll take the front and back covers.

Newsflash: "2-3% of our household waste is estimated to be disposable nappies, approximately 400,000 tonnes of waste each year. " OK, so the 0.4% or whatever figure produced ny dispie person was not the accepted figure.

Tee hee.

Hmmm - using the same argument about the environmental impact of laundering - wouldn't we all be better off using disposable clothes?

eek - 209 pages ? I am supposed to be working

hmmm nice scratchy paper shirts please.

The report is now coming up on my computer!

I believe the report did take into account that babies in re=-useables tend to potty train earlier and that most mothers using them tend to be rairly environmentally aware.

The interviewed 2000 disposable nappy users on their pattern of use and 200 re-useable nappy users. Obviously a much smaller sample.

It does make sense though. I thought about using re-useables but as I lived in a flat it seemed crazy that would be tumble drying all day - so ditched the idea.

I wonder they didn't include bio-degradeable nappies as a separate section - I would think they might be the most environmentally friendly.

I use disposables for dd because I too am cynical about the amount of machine washing and drying it would take. We don't have a tumble dryer and I can imagine it would get pretty expensive having to keep a good supply of nappies to tide us over on rainy days when the only option would be to dry them on the radiator - not a great idea in the environmental sense nor during summer months.

So I'm interested by this report because despite my above thoughts I have been thinking about using cloths for my next one which is due this Autumn.

Can any of you guys answer these questions:

1. How many nappies do you need at a time and how often to you have to change the sizes? For the first year, dd seemed to jump up nappy sizes incredibly quickly. Have you an estimate of how much this will cost me?

2. How often do you find yourself washing them and what do you do about drying them if you don't have a tumble dryer?

Sorryy to digress a little from the thread but have been meaning to ask now for some time!

Newsflash: "2-3% of our household waste is estimated to be disposable nappies, approximately 400,000 tonnes of waste each year. " OK, so the 0.4% or whatever figure produced ny dispie person was not the accepted figure.

She actually said 0.1% of LANDFILL which probably includes industrial waste?

Household waste vs total landfill waste, which includes industrial waste.

These are not new figures, btw.

And 4% is a maximum theoretical - studies of actual garbage (where they empty a mother hen and categorise the waste, or take samples from a domestic landfill) are actally quite a bit lower. Disposables manufacturers are happy to go along with the theoretical figure rather than nitpicking on regional differences etc.

I do remember a post from a thread waaaaay back from a lady who tried cloths in Australia but said that for her environment the amount of water needed to deal with cloths was a problem. Obvious to others maybe but it hadn't really occurred to me. However, I would be interested to read the detail of this study and would be particularly interested if it is really a whole-life study - transport of oil for disposables, transport of cotton or oil for cloth nappies, pesticides used on cotton grown for cloths etc...!

I thought the dig at government funding for cloth nappies was unfair, given that it's aimed at encouraging reduction of landfill which we must stop doing by 2010 or whenever it is.

All useful stuff I guess. I'm a cloth in the day, disposable at night kinda person and although it's mainly about trying for less env impact it's also about MONEY.

I think what's more important is that disposables took up 30% of MY household landfill rubbish (1 bin bag out of 3).

I'm not responsible for the 0/1%-4% but I AM responsible for everything that I put out on the pavement for collection.

No one is saying they are new / different / revelatory figures, Ameriscot, it's just that it's helpful when parties referring to a piece of published research use the same figures IYSWIM. If they are slicing the cake in different ways, that should be clarified.

Common misconception I'm afraid flum. You wouldn't be tumbledrying all day.
Wash them every other evening when you take the last nappy off. Set the washing machine to high spin. Stick them on a radiator rack overnight (honestly, it doesn't take up that much space) and by the morning they wil dry, well MEOS will maybe not tots bots. I dod stick them in the tumble dryer for 10 minutes, but the rainbow bots are dry by morning.

PFP - I bought a 'Birth to Potty' pack for abut £160. Contained 3 sizes of wraps & 2 sizes of pre-folds. Washing every 2- 3 days & drying on line or on radiators (not great cos the nappies go stiff!) & ocassional tumble.

I then bought a couple of extra wraps & nappies to make sure only wash every 3 days.

Also have leant mine to freinds & borrowed back again when their kids gre out & I had new baby.

You can get loads on ebay too if money is an issue.
Mine came from Yummies

Check out other threads on this - there's loads!

I would be interested to hear who the research was funded by.

Jump to page 189 for the dirt (ie. the analysis by the independent commentator person) (I think):

"The goal could be further specified by noting that the study is concerned with children's nappies use in 2001 - 2002. PRACTITIONER?S RESPONSE: The reference to the time period has been added."

Old news. Snooze.

a quick look at it - it seems a very thorough study.

However, I think the flaw is not enough cloth nappy users questioned (surely we aren't that hard to find ?) and limiting the study to laundry services, and flat nappies only.

I guess you would need to do the analysis on a number of different nappy use profiles and compare those. Also would be useful to compare the use of biodegradable disposables.

Not a bad attempt - but the publicity doesn't help - basically tells people considering cloth nappies that there is not much point. When in actually fact this study says they are at least as good as disposables in terms of the environment, plus any other perceived benefits.

Now - must actually do some work today

OK, don't have time to read the whole study, but can anyone tell me how they manage to conclude that there is no overall difference between all 3 systems - leaving the disposables argument aside, how can home washing and drying have less environmental impact than commercial laundries when a good proportion of home washers (like me) will dry nappies on the line?

Damn, I want to print this off but I'm not printing all 209 pages of it.
I will come back to this but right now I have to go as I have some pressing work to do - a research project, believe it or not.