25% of South African men admit to having raped women

[morningpaper]

No words for this really

There are men like the one Rindercella describes in every country and of every nationality. I wouldn't take his opinion as indicative of the rest of the population.

I totally agree with you OhBling. It just struck a chord (and brought back really unpleasant memories) when I read that article.

Yeah. He sounds like a complete asshole. I loathe people like that. Amazing that he even had friends!

"I don't see a problem with using the word African. "

that's like saying

"Asian" "European" (ok yes I know some on MN see themselves as European rather than British/German/French/whatever) "south american".

Also reminds me f letters I used to get addressed to

FAQ
xyz street
harare
Zimbabwe
South Africa

There was one episode of the A Team (yes, not the most intellectual, but anyway) where they kept on referring to South Africa as an area in Africa (like Sub-Saharan Africa), rather than a country. Saw the same thing again recently on Prison Break, where they were trying so hard to be all clever and intellectual, but kept on getting it wrong, like the women was speaking Hindi to impress the Pakistani Ambassador and referred to Zimbabwe as a place in South Africa. [sigh].

the Prof was using African to describe an African idea of manhood, i.e. something African, not only South African or Zimbabwean or Kenyan. African. Which is what was meant I take it.

Going out in a sec so have skimmed but read the article and the first thing that occured to me was in line with Penthesileia's comments.

I would be very interestd too to see the results of an anonymous survey in the UK. I would not be at all surprised to see similar results.

As for the rape of children - that's extremely common in this country too - although usually within the family rather than by strangers as a supposed cure for aids.

There was a thread here ages ago asking how many MNers had been victims of sexual violence and how many had reported it - there was a staggering response with the vast majority of attacks not being reported.

As for the "asking for it" thing - a huge proportion of people (including women) in this country believe that women who dress provocatively/flirt/have had too much to drink etc etc believe that if a woman is then raped she is partially or entirely to blame.

I didn't get too worked up about the "african" thing originally, but fox, your explanation actually does make me a bit . So when we refer to an "African idea of manhood" we assume it's the same from in South Africa as it is in Kenya as it is in Egypt?

Sorry - that last sentence was a bit garbled but hopefully you understood me.

no when I read the article I understood it as African not only South African so using FAQ's example, referring to something as European rather than just British.

I didn't read the Guardian's version of this (till this thread) but read it elsewhere and that quote wasn't repeated in any other article I read, in fact, other versions made it clear the Prof was talking only about S Africans.

and I don't, for one second, think we'd get similar results in the Uk. No way!

and i don't assume anything OhBling, that was just my assumption on reading it (i.e. by use of the word African).

I wouldn't be surprised if it was misquoted or if there was a huge chunk missing where perhaps her use of the word 'African' was explained better.

I mean I don't assume to know what she meant by using it, given we haven't seen her whole statement. But that was my assumption on reading it!

Well, this article was published today which shows that the "she was asking for it" attitude is pretty common in the UK.

women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6522923.ece

you said further down that SA was your home country?

then surely me and you can talk African to African and say that what happens in SA is certainly not indicative of what happens in the UK

I knew several people in SA that were raped and gang raped. It was everywhere. You couldn't escape it.

Whilst the conviction rates here are woeful and maybe similar, I don't believe the actual rate of occurrence is the same. You don't have the same fear here as you do there.

There is no way you ever compare what happens in South Africa to what happens here! I grew up in South Africa and moved to the UK 10 years ago. Here I go out at night with friends and we walk home, there we never walked anywhere especially at night. I have friends who live in rural areas who refuse to let their daughters wear dresses or look very girly - their girls live in dungarees, the theory is that it is a detterant (sp?) to potential rapists. There is a common belief that baby virgin girls are a cure for HIV. If the South African Government acknowledge the existance of HIV then things could be done to prevent this.

"the Prof was using African to describe an African idea of manhood, i.e. something African, not only South African or Zimbabwean or Kenyan. African. Which is what was meant I take it."

but that's absolutely ludicrious - "manhood" is seen differenty all over the continent!

I actually took it to mean black South African...

And no given articles I've seen here in the UK I wouldn't be at all suprised if a similar anonymous poll taken into 2 of the most deprived areas of the UK brought similar responses.

2yr old

and yes yes yes I know it's an awful paper (and I shall try and find a more accurate reporting of the same thing after I've fed my children) and also a small sample group - but if there's any truth it some of those statements is very shocking.

• here

fox Correct. I am South Africa (spent most of life there). I'm not meaning that the UK has the same problem with violent sexual violence as SA (in no way, whatsoever), but it does still have issues with incredibly low conviction rates, in comparison to the rest of Europe, and there is the attitude of women "asking for it" by drinking or wearing certain clothes.