Legalising rape in marriage

[Monkeyandbooba]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8000209.stm

This is so shocking I feel outraged on behalf of those campaigning against this ruling.

I completely agree with you, SomeGuy, that FGM is strongly associated - geographically speaking - with Islam, and indeed promulgated by some Islamic sects. I'm just saying that it didn't spring from some woman-hating core within Islam; it predated it. I'm sure you're right that there's no basis within Hinduism for female infanticide; but there's no direct basis within Islam for FGM either. At best, there are some highly contested bits of Hadith. Which, essentially, is cultural stuff.

Hundreds of years ago, Christianity was explicitly used as cover for woman-hating actions, such as witch-burning/ducking. Now it's not. The difference is not within the religions themselves, IMO. It's in the people who run them, and the cultures within which they operate.

I think Granny's point is not based on the facts of that case but on the fact that until 20 years ago British law held that a woman gave her consent to sex at marriage and could only revoke that through divorce or legal separation. This meant that a man who took his 'marital rights' through force wasn't committing rape because his wife had consented by marrying him. I don't know much about the law of Scotland but the equivalent case in England and Wales was in 1991 in a case called R v R. Until that case you automatically gave your consent to sex when you married. So I guess Granny's point is that our law wasn't so different not that long ago.

The difference between this and the Afghan rule is that it was never in a statute in England, it was just assumed by the opinions of an 18th C lawyer. Also it was very rarely used and the courts created exceptions so it wasn't such a committed principle as the Afghan rule is. Still, a pretty abhorrent principle though.

I see your point - however prior to 1982/1991 a husband could still be tried for clandestine injury, carnal knowledge, indecent assault etc.

Thank you Catz, that was indeed my point - that so recently, in the 'civilized' UK, a man could not be charged with raping his wife, no matter how horiffic the rape was.

Also trying to say that even with a liberalisation of rape laws, the chances of securing a conviction remain slim when the woman has previously consented to sex with the man. I abhor all violence wherever it occurs, but think we are being a little 'holier than thou' here by criticising others when our own house is not in order.

This happened last month didn;'t it. There were announcements on TV and radio the night before the march telling women that it was their duty not to march. I think about 200 incredibly brave women eventually turned up, and were heckled and stoned from the sidelines.

I really want the western media to follow what's happend to these women. I hate the way they cover the 'story' then go away and leave the individuals involved to rot.

"I abhor all violence wherever it occurs, but think we are being a little 'holier than thou' here by criticising others when our own house is not in order"

Sorry Granny, but I hate this kind of cultural relativism. Liek you say yourself, 20 years ago rape within marriage was not a crime, now it is. A lot has changed witrhin 20 years. Women are equal in the law in liberal democracies. Rape is difficult to prosecute, we have more access to justice today than ever before - and people are working on improving that all the time, are fuinded by the goverenment to do so and do not have to conduct their work in hiding for fear of fatwa.

You don't judge a democracy by it's flaws, but it's strategies to overcome them.

This is fascinating stuff, I love what I learn from Mumsnet.

Wish I could do something in this scenario, will go away and educate myself about the ideology behind this ruling and act accordingly i.e. donations to charities that help.

Oxfam are on the ground in Afghanistan. Also, on this page, is a list of all NGOs operating in Afghanistan: scroll down to item 5 for NGOs concentrating on women.