MPs' expenses: now it's the Tories' turn...

[policywonk]

here

More to come - how long are the Telegraph going to string this one out, I wonder? Apparently they paid a six-figure sum for the leak so I guess they want to get their money's worth.

I agree with Riven that there should be a area which is classed as to near to claim for a second home.

Although my local MP is today whinging saying that it right for her to claim her 'second' home allowance as she has to pay for the up keep of her 3 homes .

Interesting that the Telegraph has gone for Sinn Fein before reaching the Tories - wonder if they will cover all minority parties and independents before finally mentioning their Tory mates, in the hope we'll all be bored by then?

And Margaret Moran has a flaming cheek abusing the second home allowance while pretending to be concerned about a shortage of affordable homes in her constituency, Luton.

Decline of the Roman Empire anyone

MOAT-DREDGING

Tending to one's HELIPAD SHRUBBERY

Oh Policy you are being unreasonable. What is one supposed to do when one has a pipe burst underneath one's tennis court?

Dear God, I nearly fell off my ladder this morning when I heard abou the moat dredging on the radio.

Fabulous.

I'd loved to puruse that whole list - fox chunks in pauper's tears anyone?

Did anyone see the MP explaining to DImbelby on Question Time about why he needed a second home despite living in outer London becasue he had to be at the HofC at specific times and DImbelby said - "What, like people with normal jobs?" It was hilarious.

Interesting that after the departure of McBride that the political journalists have suddenly found a backbone to hold the MPs accountable.

Though I would have expected Tories to fleece the system, the real crime is the Labourites, supposed Sunday socialists. Only the Tories could charge for a moat hehe! I loved watching the Labour MP squirm uncomfortably as she tried to justify the unjustifiable on her home miles from her constituency - dry rot indeed. There are a few Labour MPs who have shown they haven't become New Labour, but look at how the party is treating them.

I await the Lib Dems and hope at least one party can show they aren't greedy grasping liars with their hands caught in the cookie jar.

And surely the Speaker must step down, he is a complete farce going after Kate Hoey like that. As someone with family in his constiuency of Springburn I would imagine he hasn't been there in a long while. Did he ever pay his wife's taxi fees back?

Interesting bit in an Observer article on Sunday detailing how it all came about:

When Lloyd George decided in 1911 that MPs should first be paid a wage, there were dire warnings of bringing "salaried agitators" to the Commons. He defended the £400 allowance as ensuring that those not wealthy enough to treat politics as a hobby could still serve: 26 years elapsed before MPs had their first pay rise.

Even as late as 1970, there were no regular salary reviews and the only extra allowance was £500 for a secretary. MPs had to make their own arrangements for attending overnight votes. Those who could not afford hotels slept in their offices, rinsing yesterday's shirts in the sink. "There used to be a code that, if you left your wastepaper bin across the door, the cleaners didn't disturb you because they knew you were asleep," recalls Nick Harvey, a Liberal Democrat MP and chairman of the House of Commons commission, who was elected in 1992.

But by the mid-1970s, with a more socially mixed Commons, a consensus that legislators should not be dossing on floors prompted the introduction of an allowance for overnight hotel costs. When MPs argued they could get a flat for the same price, it was extended to cover rent and, in the mid-1980s, mortgage payments. The second home allowance was born.

I must admit that although I agree that the system needs reform, I can't summon a sense of outrage about this - I'm sure there are far greater wastes of public money going on daily!

Okay, this is my solution:

Pay them all a good basic wage, bearing in mind that they work long hours and are in the public eye etc - say £100,000?

Then a system of allowances for those with constituencies outside London - no receipts, just pay them the money - think of all the time you'd save:
Within 50 miles of London - nothing
50 - 200 miles from London - £10,000 a year
200 - 400 miles from London - £15,000 a year
more than 400 miles from London - £20,000 a year.

at 'fox chunks in pauper's tears' (where's that from?)

TwoIf... are you saying we should hold Labour MPs to a higher standard than MPs from other parties? I've heard this argument in a few places but I don't really understand it.

What happened with the Speaker and Hoey? I missed that.

That is interesting Bramshott - I didn't realise it was so recent. I agree that it makes sense for costs to rise with distance to the consituency.

Will be interesting to hear what Cameron says this afternoon. He could win the election today (if he hasn't already) if he's tough enough on those who've charged the taxpayers for quarterly mole removal

Ooh, well I think Cameron has done pretty well. No resignations/sackings, but a whole list of people having to pay things back, and a vey clear/tough set of rules for all Conservative MPs to follow from now on: 'flipping' banned, no claims for maintenance or food or furniture, all claims published on the internet as they are made.

He also pretty much threatened Tebbit with withdrawing the whip.

Interesting piece with Stephen Fry: 3 minutes

I don't really agree with him but he always puts an argument well, doesn't he?

I have to say I don't believe their salary needs to increase anymore.

In the 1970 they (MP's) were on an equilvivent salary to a Band D civil servant ( who now earn roughly £22,000), they have also assured themselves of the nicest pension package for any group with the uk labour market (for all the talk of public sector pensions these are nothing on MP's)

FWIW There is a barrack block in nr Regents park which the Government are trying to flog off sell. I would imagine secruity is already reasonable and with a small ammount of initial investment, could be converted to rooms.

MP's living further away should be able to claim travel costs but these should be accounted for in the same way every other civil servant has to ( i.e. not NO reciepts under £250), and have and annual limit.

If they claim they are honourable and should not have too well, the recent evidence suggests to the contrary.

The thing with "flipping" that I don't understand, is that if their second home has to be the one they spend less nights in (as proved by Jaqui-Smith-dossing-on-her-sister's-floor-gate), then surely it's perfectly possible for one house to be de facto your "second home" in one year, and then your other house in the following year?!?

Not that I am defending MPs on the make, but I do think there could be a sensible and logical explanation for some of these things, if we could take a moment out from being rightiously (sp?) outraged!

I think though that if you don't pay them a good salary (I'm thinking on a par with GPs, headmasters, council leaders etc) then they will just get loads of second jobs and I don't think that's right as elected representatives. I'd ban that for a start "When I'm king" as Horrid Henry is wont to say! I think we also need to take into account that these people are in the public eye, and the press will hound them if they dare to step outside without looking half-decent for example.

PW I saw him on newsnight and really wasn't impressed ( and I like SF).

He seemed very out of touch with the fact that whislt people are really struggling, to see MP's claiming from the taxpayer (for dry rot etc in a fraudulent manner) whislt the country is billions in debt, would be unpleasant.

The use of the term bourgiouse (sp) was particularly pompous and out of touch. Yes it's money and we're talking about it but FGS if they can't get this right what hope is there for the rest of it!

Doris - yes, I favour the Halls of Residence solution myself - but I guess that's pretty tough on the families.

Good point about their pensions.

Bramshott - I think you're right that there are probably legitimate instances of flipping, but for so many of these claims it's just obvious that people were maximising their expense take (ie, designating house A as their 'second' home, doing it up at the taxpayer's expense, selling it off).

Absolutely agree with MPs not having other jobs. I was doing some research the other day into Andrew Mitchell, the shadow minister for international development; he's got SEVEN directorships, plus a consultancy.

Doris, yes I didn't agree with him either. I wonder whether his sense of what constitutes a lot of money is rather different from most people's. Agree that this issue is (on the face of it) less significant than lots of others - but I think people are really shocked that our MPs have turned out to be so venal and corrupt, and that is going to have a huge effect on people's attitudes for a long time to come.

Agree with him on the small parties issue though - would be healthy for UK democracy to have more people voting other than Tory/Labour (even if that means some of the votes go to the BNP). Would be good to break the two-party stranglehold.

Bramshott many of them already have directorships etc ( or advise companies) so have alternative incomes as well. What would they need theior salaries to be to prevent that?

If the second homes allowance went and accomadtion was provided (like the military) £60,000 is an adequate salary for anyone (they would only have to maintain their constituency home at their own expense.
( If those with consituencies in London complained they could have the equivilent of the NHS london weighting)

I think the more interesting story will be a list of the MPs who haven't had their hands in the till or abused the taxpayer ...

fleshwound... - yes, it would be nice to see the honest MPs being praised a bit more. There are a few (Ed Miliband, Hilary Benn and Dennis Skinner are the ones I've heard but I'm sure there are Tory ones too).

Also, nothing yet on the LibDems - personally I'd be pleased if they came out of this smelling of roses. Maybe it would boost their vote - I think they deserve it.

Sinn Fein MPs were apparently claiming for second homes even though they don't attend the Westminster parliament.

Doris and Policy - Agree with your words on Stephen Fry. I really like him but I do find at times he just lives in another world and can't quite seem to get the 'bourgoise' mindset. (Hate the use of that word too). He comes across as a little too 'I know better than the little people' which I find quite unpleasant.

I agree there are bigger things to worry about (and about smaller parties being heard) and generally find him extremely funny but it was hideously dismissive of other very valid viewpoints.