This British girl on drugs charge in Laos...

[Ponders]

She's been in prison since August but she is 5 months pregnant???

A bit more information would be helpful

I can't imagine how this will end for her and her child. What she and the other prisoners must be going through is terrifying, the thought of going through labour and giving birth in those conditions is terrifying. What will happen to the baby?

Everything about this story is terrifying. I do believe that if you commit a crime against a country you should accept the punishment of that country. However, I also believe that people are entitled to a fair trial which it doesn't sound like this is.

heard on a news bulletin (sorry for no link etc) that the laos government have said she won't face the death penalty because she is pregnant.

What will happen to the baby?

no idea, what happens to babies of pregnant women in jail in the uk,if they don't have anyone to take the baby from them (babies father,granparents etc?)?
forced adoption or fostering until the mother is released?
i'd hope the child would be repatriated and taken in by a grandparent or aunt. i'd hate to think what would happen to the kid if they were simply put in a laotian orphanage.

Message withdrawn

Well she could be innocent, but equally she could be guilty. Just because she is British and a woman does not make her incapable of committing a crime. It is also entirely possible that she could have got pregnant in order to buy herself some sympathy. We have no idea whether she was raped.

Now while I think that anyone facing the prospect of a trial should be given access to adequate legal representation, I do also think that if you go to a country where the penalty for smuggling drugs is the death penalty, then you smuggle drugs in the knowledge that if you are caught, you too could face the death penalty. Being British should not make one exempt from the laws of other countries.

I wonder, would people be so up in arms about this if it was a man?

'A representative from the Laos government stated this morning on BBC World Service radio that Laos is prepared to sign a prisoner transfer agreement with
the UK this week.'

Well that has to be a positive at least.

All good points BFG - we really have no idea about the situation, but being denied access to the prisoner does beg the question what are the authorities trying to hide from the world with regards to this case?

Interesting development. I heard on the radio that there were no plans to execute her because she is pregnant, but that the trial could be postponed (suggesting they may postpone it til after the baby is born). However, BFG's update suggests this info preceded plans to transfer her to a UK prison.

in fairness laos haven't executed anyone in 20 years. i think there's a bit of xenophobia from some of the reports assuming that because it's a brit being charged with laws from a less developed country something must be amiss and they are going for the big headlines.the fire squad was most likely kept on the legislation as a syumbolic gesture of how seriously the authorities take the crime of drug smuggling.
didn't britain do something similar with the treason laws?ireland certainly kept the death penalty on it's elgislation for capital murder long after we'd stopped enforcing it as a sign of how heinous and repellent the crime was to the courts

Well said, mayorquimby!
Yet again some of us fall victim to media hysteria.
I'll be watching this story with interest, betcha there's more to her than we're being told.
Aphrodite - anything you could enlighten us with?

My dd 18 has just been in Laos and says that drug use is rife there and is used as a source of income. A huge amount of Gap backpackers travel there, you can have what is called a 'happy menu' in loads of bars/restaurants which includes pizzas with magic mushrooms on them and weed tea and probably other things which she hasn't mentioned. She says that there is a lot of corruption and the fine for using drugs is £500 (unsure where that money goes). It is a very poor country which I assume relies on the backpacking trade for generating income, giving tourists what they want and will buy including drugs. A lot of backpackers appear to go there to experience 'tubing' ie. floating down a river on an inner-tube and drinking in various bars as you go. Luckily my dd burnt her leg so was unable to do this, medical care was really good and cost her £12, but then she was fortunate enough to be able to pay that.

A different world but I too feel concerned for the girl in prison and wonder how she became pregnant in an all womens' prison

She's 20--that is not a baby; that is two years older than some of the soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In addition, plenty of teenagers have been hooked on heroin that people like her bring into the country. I don't know if any of you have ever had an addicted family member. If not, you'll have no idea what it's like.

That said, I don't believe in the death penalty in any circumstances.

yes mayorquimby. the media has changed their reporting of this story over the past few days. initially it was suggested she'd be facing the firing squad while heavily pg and now they are sort of muttering between the lines about laos justice minister doing a deal.

i have heard some speculation that her trial was brought forward so that it could be done before the laotian minister's visit to uk so that they could agree to transfer her when meeting here. and they can't do that if she isn't convicted. of course that means they are assuming her guilt.

some of the posts in this thread are very offensive and bordering on racist

"I'd also like to point out that in SE Asia, women do not have rights. "

WTF????

Of course they do. SE Asia is a big and diverse place and even in the space of a few hundred miles in Sumatra you've got the matrilineal Minangkabau and the sharia-practising Acehnese.

Anyway, the laws and reputation of these countries are EXTREMELY clear. When you even fly in to Singapore you get a strongly worded film on the plane warning you about the penalties for drug smuggling.

The heroin she was carrying would have ruined many many lives in the region, and it is a good thing she was caught.

those of us from common law countries also seem to have issues when dealing with people from others. we must remember that different legal systems does not mean wrong legal systems, and our common law is generally regarded by other countries as flimsy and lenient.where as quite often we seem to view any countries laws that we deem to be less "civilised" than ours as wrong. there does very much seem to be a feeling among some that if we are arrested abroad the "old empire" will come to our rescue and the laws of the land should not apply to us.

this is not to suggest that legal cruelties and injustices suffered in other countries must not be fought against. but i have a lot more sympathy for people born into a country which have laws that i view as barbaric and fall foul of them than i do tourists from other countries who visit them of their own free will and then break the laws,knowing full well what the laws are and then intentionally breaking them. why does the phrase "when in rome" only apply to good things.

I agree mq. And you only have to look at the rising level of crime in this country to know that the laws we have over here clearly are not working. So maybe it's time the UK got a bit tougher rather than claiming superiority over other countries.

Agree with Aphrodite, I think you've got it spot on

But she's not been found guilty. Love the way that so many people on this thread seem to keep forgetting that small point.

like I said earlier, the point is that the country where she was arrested made no effort to contact her home country or family, that she has somehow fallen pregnant while in prison, that she has been denied access to legal representation, that she is receiving no ante-natal care, and that she faces the death penalty. These things contavene basic human rights, whether she is guilty or not.

"like I said earlier, the point is that the country where she was arrested made no effort to contact her home country or family"

according to reports yesterday they have been in contact with the british conulate since last august when she was arrested. any failings in communication there after are of no business of the laotian government.

and as you say she has not been found guilty, my comments where more in connection with the reaction of the media and public when dealing with such cases on a whole (i.e. Brits abroad being subject to strict native laws) rather than this specific case for which i agree she could very well be completely innocent.
the pregnancy is very worrying as it does look like it could well have been rape.
as for the ante-natal care, how many laotian natives who are not in prison receive it?i'd imagine it's more a case of circumstances and resources than malice.
the legal representation aspect is another worry, but i am not informed enough on laotian legal procedure to comment on wether or not this is the norm. in many countries, especially around the golden triangle in SE Asia, you can be tried in absentia without even a jury trial.

I was under the impression that the consulate were only allowed half an hour with her a month, which seems peculiar.

I suppose i am coming at this from the perspective that for anyone, local or tourist, to find themsleves in a situation like this with what seems to be a corrupt system and inhumane conditions, is terrible.

It's come to our attention because she is British, which is good as we do need to hear about regimes and countries around the world where things contravene human rights so that we can choose to support amnesty or whoever if we want.

I personally find it a little odd that these things seemingly don't matter unless "one of us" is affected. Like when there is some kind of disaster and the headlines scream "2 brits missing" and then as an aside that half a million locals are dead...

"I suppose i am coming at this from the perspective that for anyone, local or tourist, to find themsleves in a situation like this with what seems to be a corrupt system and inhumane conditions, is terrible."

yes i agree completely. i was in laos a couple of years ago backpacking and it's a great place.i do think it's terrible what's happening to this woman, but at the same time you assume certain risks when you travel. such as being subject to the laws of the land and the processes that go with it.

if it appears that i don't think this woman is deserving of sympathy that is not what i intended. my point is much along the same lines as your last 2 lines of your posts. it is the arrogance of the media reports and some of the public outcry that annoys me as it smacks of a "this would never happen over here" attitude (when all you have to do is look at the guildford 4 to see what british justice is capable of when looking for scapegoats to a serious crime). and also has a bit of the old colonial distaste for the "natives" i.e. let them do what they want among themselves but don't they dare go near a briton.

I do think that while most intelligent and savvy people familiarise themselves with the laws of the land before they travel, there are equally many people who are a bit dim or just don't think or are young and excitable who don't realise that they need to think about these things (not talking about heroin smuggling obviously!).

Travelling has become so everyday and commonplace that people expect to be able to do everything that they do at home and if anything goes wrong they will be bailed out. of course that isn't the case but it's a consequence of our casual approach to other cultures etc.

I'm not sure what you do about it though. Hard to stop people being niave/green/silly etc...

I am also always interested to see that when a briton is sentenced to death in the US there isn't the same fuss - a bit of a fuss but not like this - which is why I would have to agree with your colonial/racist theory.

you are sent to prison as punishment not for punishment

That's another debate though isn't it Mary? Depends on where you live, political views etc... Many countries punish people while in prison. the US springs to mind.