anyone want to sign this petition regarding the whistle blowing nurse who has been struck off?

[SnortyBartFast]

whistle blowing nurse

I've also known people who have tried to raise the alarm by the bureaucratic method and got absolutely nowhere.

Suits the wrong-doers just fine if nurses are scared off from raising the alarm. Would have saved quite a few lives in Staffordshire if anyone had been filming. And in Rose Gibb's trust. And a few others we could mention.

I agree with edam on this one, and have signed. I for one, want to know if a situation has got this bad. It's the abusers who should be struck off, not MH.

I work in the NHS, and am happy to confirm that I know of many nurses who approve of what she did, NorthernLurker. You don't work for the HA repsonsible for the elder abuse do you?

I wonder if children had been involved instead of older people would there still be the same bleating about 'confidentiality'? Of course there wouldn't.

It's not rubbish edam - what's easier; saying ok yeah Panorama, I'll wear a hidden camera for x amount of shifts to expose shockingly poor practice (I don't dispute that it was terrible at all) which won't actually change the care received by the patients but will make for good telly. Or I'll battle every step of the way following correct procedures to blow open the unacceptable care I am witnessing and achieve change in a way that is professionally responsible and doesn't contravene my code of professional conduct.

The NMC may well have agreed that the nurse was right to expose the poor care but not in the way she did it - our CPC is quite clear on what is acceptable and if you knowingly breach it you pay the consequences.

Signed. I'm a nurse with 23 years experience in the NHS. A place I worked in had some questionable beliefs regarding equipment sterility. I spoke to the Sister in Charge, the Line Manager, and the NMC, all to no effect. I thankfully left the area very soon after.

Sidge - she has complained to the HA before. They ignored her. She felt this was the route that would finally expose it, once and for all.

I don't think it made good telly - it made shocking, sad, awful telly, which has made people take notice and ask questions, and has made the NMC look incompetant and more concerned with 'procedure' than with patient care and safety, and atrocious standards of nursing care.

As I said - if it had been children involved, would you really have been taking this stance?

Paolosgirl I didn't know that. I haven't followed this case terribly closely. I am commenting really based on whether she should have been struck off and I think she should. The NMC are quite clear on the rules regarding our CPC and she contravened it, so they did what they have to do. (FWIW I think the NMC are a waste of space but that's a different thread).

I don't dispute that someone needed to expose the appalling practice going on there, and that there needs to be a more robust system of reporting such practice, but is this the way to do it? I don't think so.

No, they didn't have to strike her off - the alternative was a formal warning, and then NMC should have gone after the HA for putting patients in such a position.

Can I ask - if children had been involved, would you still feel the same?

She did know what she was doing, I would get sacked as a teacher if I did the same. I agree with sidge.

Yes I would feel the same if it were children. Elderly adults are just as vulnerable as children and should receive the best standard of care. (well everyone should really, that goes without saying)

But I think that any professional who clearly contravenes their code of professional conduct should be disciplined. It confuses the picture here because the nurse involved was acting with good intentions, but ultimately she committed an act that she should have known could have had her removed from the register.

So Sidge, if the nurse had exhausted all avenues available to her for internal remedy but was still ignored, what should she have done to secure her patients' care?

If she went to the media as her last resort, should she still have been struck off? Please do not hide behind what the code of professional conduct IS. Ask yourself what it SHOULD be.

Crikey I don't know! In an ideal world there shouldn't be any need to go to the media as the authorities should respond accordingly to concerns about care.

From what I have read she didn't go to the media as a last resort. If it had been should she have been struck off? I doubt it; I would have hoped that the NMC would take all the factors into account when making their decision and if it had truly been a last resort then you would have hoped that they would have granted some leniency. But as I have said before, I am only basing my opinion and unwillingness to sign a petition based on the information I have available to me. And I don't believe she had exhausted all avenues.

No, I think you misunderstood. If it had been a children's/baby ward, or a children's home, and there had been the same atrocious level of care by nursing staff, and a nurse (who had already reported this to the HA, who then did nothing at all) then filmed it, would you still say they should have been struck off - regardless?

Yes. Why is it any different just because it's a different patient group? I would hope that she would have been treated the same whether it was elderly patients or children.

By the way I am not trying to demonise her. I imagine she was a desperate woman trying to expose the poor care her patient group was receiving. I just think signing petitions when we don't even know the full details is inappropriate. And I don't know enough about this case and why the NMC made the decision they did so I wouldn't sign.

Sit on the fence if you must, Sidge.

The petition has loads of momentum. Just check out how many people signed it today - pages and pages. Most right-minded people can see that whatever technicality this nurse may have breached, that her actions were true and right and her striking off unjustified.

I'm absolutely astounded and saddened that you would take this attitude - protect 'procedures' over vulnerable elderly people, babies and children at all costs?

Are you a nurse? If so,then it's very very worrying that you have taken this stance. I know, having worked in the NHS for 20 years, that it's easy to become bogged down in bureaucracy, but never, ever lose sight of the people that you are treating.

You might want to read this to remind yourself of what' important in caring for people - I'm sure you're already familiar with it.

If pages and pages of people want to sign something and feel that they know enough about it to do so then fair play to them. I don't so I won't. I am not willing to put my name to something that I am not in full knowledge of the facts about. Nothing fence sitting about that.

Paolosgirl it is nothing to do with protecting procedures over vulnerable people. My post above explains why I wouldn't sign the petition.

By not signing a petition doesn't mean I condone the care that the nurse exposed.

I think it is fine to say that procedures are key and must be followed but what happens when those procedures are followed and nothing changes? What then? What are the nursing staff supposed to do then? As far as I can see the only thing they can do would be to quit nursing altogether. Then where would we be?

Sidge - what would you have done if you had exhausted all procedures and still been ignored?

Despite the appalling care that was shown on TV? That is not enough for you, Sidge? You still insist on adherence to procedure. Without due process, it is as if nothing had happened? That is missing the wood for the trees. But your prerogative, of course.

I don't know MollieO. I really don't. I may well have done the same as Ms Haywood. Contrary to what Paolosgirl may think my patients are actually my priority first, last and everytime and not the NMC who as I said before are not on my Christmas card list.

Yes it is, Sidge. The procedures which were in place in protect the vulnerable patients were being routinely ignored by the HA. The nurse complained, and nothing changed. She took the bull by the horns, and went public with it - and lo and behold, the HA has now changed it's procedures.

If employees of a private company are exposed in this way on Watchdog or whatever, the company is usually very quick to condemn their actions and the employees find themselves out of a job. In this case, where there has been horrendous treatment of vulnerable patients by so-called professionals the guilty parties are allowed to keep their jobs. You couldn't make it up.

I didn't see the programme. All I know about this case is what I read in the NMC magazine and on some news websites.

I based my opinions based on what I knew. And based on what I knew I would not sign a petition.

You obviously know far more about this case than I do. And maybe if I knew the full story I would sign it. But at this time I don't, so I won't.

But thank you for giving me more details.

Not suprised she got the boot, afterall if everyone started whitleblowing they'd really be up shit street wouldn't they?
As with all institutions it's about self interest really and I find it very sad.
By the way excellent posts Paolo.