Great to hear some positive news about home birthing in the mainstream media!

[norktasticninja]

Here. The findings are nothing new TBH but its great to see some positive news about home birth.

The study was conducted in the Netherlands (where I live) and there is just one tiny inaccuracy I feel I must mention as it probably has a lot to do with the relatively high rate of transfer to hospital stated (1/3 of births).

There is no pain relief available at home here. G&A isn't used at all (either at home or in hospital) and TENS is pretty much unheard of. The article mentions transfers to hospital "if the mother required more effective pain relief in the form of an epidural", in actual fact transfer is necessary for any form of pain relief.

2shoes, I'm sure that must have been horrifying.

Midwives generally have resus equipment for homebirths though, don't they? That was my understanding when I attempted (and failed) my HB. I mention this only for the women aiming for HB who will be considering factors like this.

It's sad to say, but I wonder if there are sometimes unneccessary interventions in hospitals that result in a cascade of intervention and sad consequences, that in a HB environment would have been avoided. But people generally don't consider things that way, I've found.

I'm considering a hb for my 2nd only because I haven't really got any childcare for dd and thought it might be easier. MW is very pro hb but I do worry about emergency terrible situations (such as 2shoes had to face )

It's important to get all perspectives probably

interesting X-post!

phew thanks mn hq
sorry i just said more than I felt happy with.

I just think if something goes wrong(and it can ) having doctors in the building is good.
even leaving dd out, ds was a forceps delivery.
I have now remebered why I don't post on these threads. so will leave now

Sometimes hospitals with all their machinary and stress cause problems. Ie. forcing a woman to lie on her back for continous monitoring slows down labour, this leads to unnecessary induction, failed forceps and then c- section.

Many women in that situation may believe that their life or their baby's life was saved by the hospital, when it was the hospital protocal that put them in danger in the first place. Ie. cascade of intervention

Other hospital practices like nil by mouth, lack of privary, long travelling distance can affect labour. I think its an area for research, because the answers on the relative safety or homebirth v hospital birth is not simple.

I completely agree with you VLC, the cascade of intervention often causes the problem with the baby that the hospital staff then have to "save" the baby from. When I read about women who had hospital births and were endlessly monitored (lying on thier backs) and whose babies then became distressed and had to be delivered quickly (instrumentally) and then resussed I want to bang my head on the wall. Supine labour puts the baby into distress, and augmented contractions and instant cord clamping/cutting makes for blue babies that need to be to be resussed. Grrrr!!! And if I hear another "and the cord was wrapped around Tarquins neck so he would have died if we hadn't been in hospital!" story I will scream!! Being in hospital can be just as risky if not more so than being at home to give birth.

I am quite reassured by my MW being so enthusiatic about HB. We're only 10 mins from hospital if I need to transfer and she pointed out a paramedic would be here within minutes if a desperate emergency.

Other concerns are really silly like - what about the mess? MW said don't worry about it we bring loads of stuff and take it all away afterwards. I had 2nd degree tear with dd but she said she could stitch me if needed. Really thinking I may go for it.

I agree in principle but cannot agree with
this being the case all the time. Sometimes no matter how good your MW is it just isn't going to work. I had a hospital based, but very natural, labour; moving positions, birthing ball, music and food and drink, water (shower) for relaxation, massage for pain relief etc. My daughter changed from her "perfect" position to a crown-down refusal to move, and when I got to 9.5cm and then no further for HOURS and in fact started getting less dilated due to swelling, the consultant insisted I have syntocinon. This was crap and horrible and painful and the monitoring was awful and I had to lie down and all the rest of it - but after two hours they offered me a CS and I said yes please. Babe ended up in SCBU due to grunting, because my waters had been gone for so long they didn't want to take the chance that she had an infection. I could feel no gratitude to them at all, just furious that they had taken my baby away from me. In the end it was either accept that everything had gone as it had and I needed to make the best of it, or suffer agonies of PND thinking that if I'd accepted the induction the day my waters broke, like they suggested, she'd have been fine and those first three days apart from her wouldn't have been necessary...

At the moment I plan to try for as natural a VBAC as possible with my next one, but if it starts going the same way, I'll be requesting a CS.

SilkCushion, the MW's tidied up the mess (not that there was much of it) whilst I had a shower (in my OWN bathroom) and stitched me up (my episiotomy scar tore) as I sat on the sofa, they had lignocaine in the birthing kit so I didn't feel a thing, unlike when I had DD1 in hospital and the Dr stitched up my episiotomy even though the local was wearing off, and I did tell her I could feel it but because I was helpless in stirrups she just carried on regardless.

Homebirth rocks.

hospitals in the netherlands are at least as good as UK ones.

smaller studies of the safety of HBs in the UK have previously drawn same conclusion.

Its terrible when a child suffers brain damage as result of childbirth. However occassionally babies that are born in hospitals can suffer brain damage as well.

A few months ago I had a gentleman come from a pest control company to exterminate squirrels in our loft. He has a daughter with severe cp who was born in hospital. He is convinced that a lack of midwives caused his daughter's brain damage. In fact he is sueing the hospital because his wife was left unattended for much of her labour. The hospital relied on continuous monitoring as a subsitute for employing enough midwives.

A significant factor is how high risk the mother is. High risk women are strongly discouraged from having a home birth. In our area, everything about obstetic history and the pregnancy has to be perfect.

Certainly Riven and its a factor to be borne in mind but cock ups at the hospital with ds1 almost cost me my life (misdiagnosed eclampsia) so I felt infinitely safer at home.

DS1 wasn't offered any help, I couldn't have a CS despite the noyes showing that heis heart was struggling as they had lost my bloods and can't do one without, then the only Paed on shift was too busy anyway as there were two of us in the same position.

We were lucky, mainly because (this is my beleif, never had the strength to revisit with the hospital though ahd another Ob review the noytes and agree with me) I progressed from 5cm to 10cm in 5 minutes and got ds1 out.

With ds2 the minutes I arrived at hospital (several times) ctx stopped becuse of nerves / pure fear and if a home birth han't been an option I would never have conceived ds4.

"least you can sue a hospital if something goes wrong."

Riven did you really mean to say that?

In my case, I was lucky that I had my own chronic health problems that put me in the high-risk-to-be-intensively-monitored category. Because there were no tests that could tell us that both my dcs were also carrying a (completely unrelated) genetic disorder that made them weak and less able to cope with pregnancy/birth. Ds's heartbeat went down very quickly during labour.

And it should also be remember that not all women get stressed out by hospital births. I felt reassured, particularly during my second labour. I would have stressed out a whole lot more if I'd been thinking about the possible need for an emergency transfer.

Peachy, but wouldn't being in the hospital with your ds1 have saved your life as opposed to being a home? Even if the hospital cocked up initially. If you had stayed at home would the final outcome have been better or worse? It wouldn't have stopped the eclampsia developing.

No, as there was nothing they could do- they told me that! It would need a cs and there was nobody could do it or would without blood results (HELLP syndrome).

Now, had I had blood or bp tests that indicated support needed (and PET does arise pre delivery in almost all cases) indicating support required then yesI'd have gone in ( ten minute transfer) but as my BP peaked only when I was in hospitals(home tests by MW always OK) I do think that for me a HB was the best option. Add in that as I was absolutely terrified of a hospital delivery- when a Mw suggested it early on I broke downhugely (threads must be on here somewhere- the factor that dh couldnt be there was the major over riding factor for me. I'd have needed sedating.

Now ds2 was born in a MW led ubitandthatwasgreat, but not one on offer where we are now. Which is a bit of a pisser, to put it bluntly, and reduced my options.

I'm not saying a HB is for everyone, but that people and there situations are very comlpex andw e shouldnt criticise others choicesso willingly. I kew of Riven'scase (indeed had met her) and yesthat scared mea lot but even then I knew itwas a chance that wasright for me.

And the outcome was that a HB was unarguable best. Why? simply because birth was somewhat predictably so fast that I wouldnt have made it there, indeed only one MW amde it here, an ambulance transfer wouldnt even have done it, so I think being born at home, with a MW and oxygen on standby was bette thasn the oher two options- at home with no equipment and a paramedic on the phone, or in the car park at Tesco.

Absolutely cory, which is where the indivisual choice thing comes in.

BTW I never even considerd a HB with ds1- it was with subsequewnt non problematic preganncies that I gradually downgraded : MLU with ds2; actually main hospital due to anemia with ds3 but domino and dhable toattend; hb ds4

(hb with ds1 would have been ridiculous)

lalalonglegs Are you only allowed to contribute to this thread if you agree HB is best ? Can we not have an opinion or share an experience? I will 2nd that if I had given birth at home to both my dc, we would all be dead.

That's how it is .... some babies die a home and some die is hospitals. Most babies die in hospitals, because that's where a majority of births take place. Giving birth is probably the most dangerous thing we are ever likely to do in our lives. The whole process is, for want of a better word, miraculous. Human error, circumstances, nature and lack of funding all contribute to the tragedies. I wish we lived in a perfect world where we could give birth in our homes and feel confident that all would be ok. Sadly, I think this is a very long way off.

It is certainly where a majority of at risk births take place and I'd suggest taht birthing an at risk abby at home is perhaps, foolish at best.

I still think HB is also the safest option for others though. tke away the whole ds1 thing- strip it down to extremely rapid birth- yes I was safest at home with MW attendance and equipment.

We do need to hear all sides of the stories not just the fluffy 'positive' stuff. Life is not always an endless series of sunny days and things turning out exactly as we want.

On a population level (selected, low-risk) homebirth is as safe as hospital birth. But on an individual level, if something goes wrong then it can go very tragically wrong indeed and in those circumstances I'd rather be in hospital.
Midwives are great for low risk deliveries of healthy babies but in the event of complications I don't want another midwife but instant (or near enough)access to an obstetrician, paediatrican and NICU.

IMO, it compares interestingly with the statistics on breastfeeding, as at a population level it is easy to see a difference between bf/ff but on an individual level it is hard or impossible to tell who was bf and who ff.