Benefit cheats

[JuxaLOTmoreChocolate]

These people are paid from our taxes; that's our money for which we work hard. They can also get extra if they want it, if they play the system right.

Then they spend our money on new kitchens, barbecues, garden plants, holidays, new TVs, new hi-fis, luxury items that I, certainly, can only dream of.

I thought benefit cheats were roundly punished, yet our MPs seem to get away with little more than a figurative slap on the wrist.

Why?

because once you get there you get given a sense of entitlement which makes you think you are better than your constituents.

And you also think you work hard and deserve 200k a year and constant first class travel

What slap on the wrist? Most of them just say 'it's within the rules', relying on the fact that the rules seem to say 'whatever you can get away with'. Greedy fuckers.

And these are the people making the laws the rest of us have to live by!

I want to say to Jacqui Smith "it's not about going over the rules looking for loopholes, it's about morals" Then showing her how to find the word in the dictionary.

If it IS ok for her and others to play the system then we should have a tips section on MN where people share benefit loopholes and tips.

I'm disappointed by Tony McNulty, always struck me as a reasonable sort of chap even though I don't share his views a lot of the time.

Would never have dreamt the home secretary of all people was putting porn films on expenses. What on earth will these freeloaders think of next?

This has been going on for donkeys years I'm sure and is across the board.

One of those things where everyone does it and it is normalised in that working culture.

Like where my DH works it's the same on your record to have 3 weeks off as 3 days sick so everyone takes 3 weeks at a time. And they see it as part of their holiday entitlement.

They need to change the rules and make it all transparent now. This has really fucked people off.

Allowed a 2nd home allowance if you live outside central london? FFFFFFFS.

Actually the porn film aspect is a bit of a red herring. They put ALL their bills onto it regardless and he happened to watch an adult movie which went on the bill. I doubt it would be hard core anyway.

I bet if you checked you'd find we pay for everything from underwear to xmas presents.

Frankly, this bothers me far more:

"A new generation of Britain's super-rich are moving to the Riviera to avoid the Inland Revenue, largely thanks to tax loopholes which allow them to commute to work from Monaco. Such well-known residents as the recently-knighted retailer Philip Green and the Easyjet founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou have been joined in this tax haven by a new class of astonishingly-wealthy hedge fund managers, property developers and internet entrepreneurs.

The Guardian has traced more than 650 directors of British companies who give their current address as Monaco, and the top 10 residents there with UK interests alone control family assets worth more than £13.5bn.

The crucial tax loophole, dating from the steamship age, allows non-residents 90 days a year in Britain, plus the day of travel out and the day of travel back. This means businessmen can fly in on Monday morning, work four days, fly out on Thursday night, and do this for most weeks in the year without breaking the rules.

One of those involved says: "You can even fly in one day and out the next, and it doesn't count at all, provided you don't do it too often."

The tax authorities have also allowed non-residents, since 1993, to keep a UK house without losing their status. Coupled with the laptop and a mobile phone, this makes it easy to run a British business from Monaco.

Traditionally, elderly Britons used to sell up their firms and retire to Monte Carlo with the proceeds, which were free of capital gains tax in return for a minimum of five years residence spent playing golf and lazing in the sun. Many still do this.

But now they are being joined by the thirty- and forty-somethings who treat the crowded principality more as a British suburb. There is zero income tax to pay on their dividends, and the Sûreté Publique will hand out a residence permit in return for evidence of a hefty deposit in a Monaco bank, and a willingness to pay sky-high prices for property."

These money-grabbing scumbags avoid tax here and tax loop-holes make it perfectly legal for them to do it. They are far more odious in my view because they have more money than they could ever know how to spend, yet still seek to consciously find ways to avoid having to pay a single penny of it over to the Exchequer.

It's perfectly true that the law is written by the rich for the benefit of the rich.

It stinks to high heaven.

Disgusting Gunnerbean.

Unfortunately this is the way it has always been and I strongly suspect the way it always will be.

So we have a thread ostensibly about benefit scroungers, incorporating MPs and their scandalous expenses, employees and their scandalous attitude to sickness, the superrich and their scandalous attitude to taxes.

Can I throw in another class of scrounger? The Royal family, and their massive salaries for relative underperformance which would put Fred the Shed to shame.

when i was on benefits i couldnt afford holidays, tvs and new kitchens -

new kitchens - so these bnenefit thiefs have their own house too?

i certainly can't understand it - has the benefits system rally changed that much - or do you reckon people are getting massive credit from people like 'brighthouse' to buy these things at an apr of over 300%

i personally think its the latter

please do explain to me about the kitchens - this intrests me

custardo thye OP is talking about MPs expenses

I know, it's disgusting. Clamp down on the single mum trying to feed 2 kids on twenty quid a week who takes on a little cleaning job to make ends meet and actually be able to afford to put the heating on this winter and she's a foul criminal while these MPs pull in what? £100,000, more? and STILL try to grab more!

And yes - the royel family and all their hangers on! ffs, if we got rid of all the money grabbing and corruption from mps and royalty, then benefit (IS, DLA, WTC etc) rates could probably double and we'd STILL save money!!

They claim that if they were not paid enough they'd leave and then where would we be. Given that they all seem to do a pretty crap job from bankers to utility managers I don't think we'd notice their absence.

Let's give them a one way ticket and wave them off. If they really don't want to leave the French found a great way to trim off the scroungers at the top.

Well quite - all those spivs in the City spent the last three decades claiming 'you can't make us pay the same tax on our earnings as everyone else or we'll leave'. The government fell for it and look where that's got us.

The lot of them can fuck off and shut the door on the way out.

The other half and I earn decent money - well above the national average - but we haven't got a pot to piss in.
By the time we've paid the mortgage, the council tax, our residents parking, food & utility bills and petrol etc there is bugger all left.
I'm so fucked off having no money - and stories like this really hack me off. I don't think this government get how pissed off people are.

Nancy, but you have got a pot to piss in - you have a home, a car, and can afford to pay your bills. Some people are not even that fortunate.

Backbench MPs earn £65k. Unfortunately some of them view maxing out their expenses as a way of supplementing that income. Many of them feel the basic salary isn't what it should be for political reasons, and it's "only fair" that they should top it up. Nonsense of course, but a fairly widely-held view.

I think we can put Jacqui Smith's porn films down safely as a mistake though. The rules don't let you claim for entertainment TV of any sort - although you can claim for TV packages if you can show it's necessary to do your job.

The problem is the rules themselves. Very few of the people we've heard about have actually broken expenses rules. They're just very very bendy - and very, very generous.

the thread title is really annoying me

Neenztwinz, I think you miss the point having a roof over your head and a car to get to work these days is seen as the minimum standard of living, frankly if you have a couple of kids and worked 16 hours a week you'd expect to have that.
I think what's getting peoples goat is the opportunity to better yourself is getting narrower and narrower.
When I was a 18 year old leaving school, half my friends already had kids, but I could go to Uni, work hard and do well for myself. Frankly that option is only available now to kids who will bank roll them out of debt or those going into the armed forces who will pay them or those prepared to spend the first five years paying off debts.
And once you're over that minefield, could you possibly spend 5 years saving a deposit for a house/flat that will cost you 4/5 times your salary and you'll probably never pay off.
Whilst the whole time paying for the MP's every whim and luxury.
We need a revolution, off with their heads.

Sorry old cheese but I am going to have to pull you up on this one:

"all those spivs in the City spent the last three decades claiming 'you can't make us pay the same tax on our earnings as everyone else or we'll leave'."

The vast majority of income tax raised in this country is paid by the top 10% of earners. Every executive in the city pays the same rate of tax - the top rate of 40% soon to be 45%.

It is simply NOT true to say that spivs in the City pay less tax. You are talking about a tiny handful of non-doms who don't pay income tax on investments held out of the UK. Which actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Even the non-doms pay income tax on earnings from employments in the UK.

I still think 'don't have a pot to piss in' is a bit OTT from someone who actually can afford to pay the mortgage, run a car and pay all the bills.

Agree with you on the MPs and on the university tuition fees though.

Quattro - what about those execs who 'pay less tax than their cleaners'? Never really understood what that is about (something to do with bonuses being taxed differently to normal income?)

It's all relative isn't it, DH parents think I am the most rubbish house keeper/wife/mother because we don't live in a 5 bed detached on DH's single income. They didn't go to Uni and feel because Dh did they feel it must be my fault they we are living lesser life than they had when they were raising a family in the 70's. I wish it was as simple as me being crap with money then we could actually do something about it.

Sorrento, are you happy though? If so why do you need a five-bed detached house?

It saddens me that people link happiness to material wealth. If we stopped wanting unneccessary things then maybe we would all be much happier.

It depends what you view as unneccessary of course. I think brand new cars (well, most new things actually, ebay is a wonderful thing ), big houses, £5k holidays and private school are unneccesary, but then others would see them as neccessities (and others might feel sad cos they want those things but can't afford them).

I'm hoping to have 4 Dc's so a 5 bed house would be very nice.
For me though it was the expectation that if we worked hard we'd do well and so would our children and to be told, thanks for your efforts but actually you are now going to be taxed to high heaven for the rest of your natural life, whilst those who didn't work as hard as you/have the same ability or talents will have exactly the same grates a bit, you know ? What do we tell our children, I suspect I might push mine towards a career in politics.

lol at career in politics, Sorrento.

Why care what anyone else has though? Only look at yourself. Are you happy? Sometimes I look at what we are left with after tax and think 'some people earn that before tax - we are so fortunate'.

So yes we are taxed highly and the govt wastes too much and there are too many scroungers but there are also lots of very needy people and I would rather pay more and have a more equitable society. Me and DH give away 10% of our income on top of our taxes etc. Lots of people need it more than us.

The MPs do take the p*ss with their expenses though!