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How could that possibly have happened in 21st century England?

55 replies

Gorionine · 17/02/2009 10:17

Does anyone remember that awful story?

happened in 2005

It was on the news yesterday because of ongoing inquest.

OP posts:
CarGirl · 17/02/2009 13:09

Does this mean that they took out her feeding tube when she left hospital and therefore she ate/drank nothing at home?

I assumed that she still had a feeding tube but wasn't given enough nutrients/fluids through it but the article doesn't make it clear either way.

Pawslikepaddington · 17/02/2009 13:17

Looks like she had nothing at all

CarGirl · 17/02/2009 13:24

If that's the case then I really don't understand why her parents didn't realise to ignore what they were being told and take her to an A&E, you would expect all adults to realise dehydration would be a huge problem.

I feel so sad for them that they didn't have the confidence in themselves to fight for her against the medics.

NinkySWALK · 17/02/2009 14:24

It is terribly difficult to challenge medics. Sometimes they seem almost determined to undermine and patronise you.

DD had over a year of spontaneous, heavy nose and mouth bleeds and a tiny accidental cut to the scalp which bled seriously before she was two. The incident which took place just before her DX was awful. I had insisted on her being kept in and monitored as I was sure given hrt history and severe bruising that she had something like haemophilia.

I will never forget waking up and hearing the doctor on his ward round sniggering outside with his colleagues that, "the mother is hysterical and thinks the girl has haemophilia. The bleeding has stopped now ho ho". I dragged him into the cubicle to see a blue-lipped still gushing DD, head stuck to the pillow. Luckily we DID get a test as a result of it all and he spent a lot of time dodging into cupboards and sluice-rooms when we met in the corridors.

Now haemophilia does not cause problems in girls as they are carriers, but it was clear that something wasn't right. Turns out that her problem is in 1% of the population. There are FB groups about it and she is recognised to be a classic case. Was it too much for a trained professional, (well several actually, but none as nasty) to consider that she may suffer from something with an incidence that high? Apparently so.

I didn't know about the MSbP miscarriages of justice until much later but it chills me just thinking about it.

Also, even after her DX, nobody told us the signs to watch out for that she was bleeding out and didn't have much time. They are pretty obvious but on one occasion when we were getting no joy from the hospital or G.P we called the Paramedics out and even they told us to wait until morning before taking her back to hospital. The on-call doctor at the hospital was told of her symptoms, (loss of consciousness / vomiting blood, white tongue) and told us to wait so we did. When we got there they couldn't believe we had waited so long and we had a massive telling-off because she was on the point of cardiac arrest and death. With a gradually-weakening child it is hard to know where the line between, "seriously ill", and, "dying" actually is. This child's symptoms would have been mainly internal and not as visible as something really really wrong as DD's, which were still ignored by various medics even after she was known to have a life-threatening condition! Poor, poor family

lisalisa · 17/02/2009 14:39

Echo all what NinkySWALK said.

I really think we need some doctors on here to justify their position as they are getting quite a serious bashing on here.....

NAB09 · 17/02/2009 14:41

It is really hard to argue against doctors when all you are going on is instinct. Have been there with my daughter. I was ill and just assumed they would think I was being neurotic.

Just can't help wondering what the mum was thinking. Maybe she thought, just one more day and then we will go. (to hospital/GP)

Who knows?

It does seem that the child didn't know she was having so many teeth removed and that definitely is wrong.

misdee · 17/02/2009 14:54

some of the g's at my surgery have me down as neurotic. especially when i asked for dd's to have heart scans done due to dh heart problems. turned out dd1 does hve a minor heart problem. so instinct was right there.

also have a receptionist turn me away when i asked for g to see dd1 as her breathing wasnt right. ended up being admitted overnight at a+e due to a severe asthma attack.

donnie · 17/02/2009 14:55

this case has really upset me - why on earth were all the child's milk teeth removed? no wonder she was freaked out. I feel so sorry for her, locked silently inside her terror, unable to express her fears.

I agree that it can be very hard to stand up to prefessionals but I also question the parents here - why onearth could they not grasp that to eat or drink nothing for several days is life threatening, especially in a little child? it sounds like there is more to this that we are being told. Very sad all reound.

NAB09 · 17/02/2009 14:58

I always have something at the back of my mind

babies can go so many hours without fluids.
Toddlers, so many more and then bigger children a bit longer.

No one should go 3 weeks though.

Frasersmum123 · 17/02/2009 15:04

I feel absolutely terrible for the parents.

But if she were my DD I would have taken her straight to A+E and not left until they did something, I had to do this when DS1 had Meningitis as a baby and the Dr's told me he had a virus.

Sidge · 17/02/2009 15:07

This story is very strange. No doubt the professionals involved were partly responsible but the parents must have known their daughter was seriously ill if she really hadn't eaten or drunk anything for 3 weeks? Why didn't they call an ambulance? Why didn't they pitch up at A&E and refuse to move until someone had seen her?

Surely common sense would override whatever they were told on the phone by a psychologist?

donnie · 17/02/2009 15:08

yes NAB - even my 7 year old knows for sure that you can last a few days without food but only a day or two without water. I can't see why the parents did not get this?

georgimama · 17/02/2009 16:50

That's what I have been trying to say. I don't get the parents at all.

DogMa · 17/02/2009 17:00

Our GP is fantastic - actually, he's beyond fantastic and saved my DD's life. That's not exaggerating.

He has four kids of his own though. He explained it like this - if Mum is worried, then he is worried. If Grandma is worried, he bloody well knows there is definitely a problem!

I agree with OP and a few others, keep banging on doors if you know something is wrong. Trust your instincts and being a qualified medic does not make you totally infallible.

From a GP's point of view - many see patients with nothing more serious than an illness that their own mother could diagnose and treat over the kitchen table, so they get blind to it sometimes.

ilovemydogandMrObama · 17/02/2009 17:19

Georgie - Think that some people have blind faith in doctors, lawyers and view them as highly qualified professionals who cannot be questioned...

LynetteScavo · 17/02/2009 19:19

My grandmother came from a family of doctors and she had absolute blind faith in them.

GrapefruitMoon · 17/02/2009 19:35

A close friend of mine was once in a car crash. She felt something else was seriously wrong after she was admitted to hospital (she had a broken hand and back injuries) but no-one would take her seriously. She tried to get out of bed, naked, in agony in the middle of the night to get to a pay phone to phone her gp who she felt would believe her but she collapsed. No-one would take her seriously until a doctor she knew came on duty the next day and re-assessed her. She was rushed off to the operating theatre with severe internal bleeding and had to be resuscitated during the operation.

She is a doctor.

I do not have blind faith in doctors and I doubt that anyone in her family does now....

lisalisa · 17/02/2009 20:59

frasersmum123 - you too huh ? Whenever I look back on that black period of ds 1 having meningitis and me screaming and knocking on doors to get heard I freeze up again. And this is a relatively well publicised infant disease.

cory · 17/02/2009 21:12

I keep trotting this one out, but I took dd to A&E with pains and inability to weight bear and we were suspected of sexual abuse and not allowed to come home. Since that time, I have probably taken dd to A&E about a dozen times- her condition makes her very accident prone- but it's not been easy. Really it has not been easy. I do do it, because you have to, but it is scary.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 18/02/2009 16:39

I'm not surprised the parents didn't question the doctors.

If you question them, they punish you by accusing you of abuse.

Why is it so surprising that parents are reluctant to question them?

verygreenlawn · 18/02/2009 17:09

I wish I'd been firmer with the ob who performed a scan on my son at 32 weeks and said he was fine. I was pretty certain that things weren't right, but she shrugged and made a comment about reading things on the internet. Just a few hours later he was dead. And the worst of it is, I should've known better because of my background - but like many people I was taught to defer to medical opinion.

You can bet your bottom dollar I'm a little more insistent about things now. Quietly and politely insistent. I'd rather be seen as an OAP than go through that again.

I do feel desperately sorry for all concerned in this story - it just seems one way or another this shouldn't have happened.

Technofairy · 18/02/2009 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Quattrocento · 18/02/2009 20:29

Doctors are fallible. One dippy so-and-so actually diagnosed my ectopic pregnancy as cystitis. Despite me telling him clearly and repeatedly that he was wrong. It's VERY important to insist on proper attention.

verygreenlawn · 18/02/2009 20:37

Technofairy what an awful situation for you to be in. It's terrible it happened to you, but I for one would rather know when these things happen, no matter how rare.

Technofairy · 18/02/2009 23:17

Thanks VGL - it was a very difficult time and we got through it, but it makes me so sad and angry to see that others are still at the mercy of those all seeing, all knowing doctors who are never wrong despite our own best instincts. There are some scary stories on this thread.

Our experience has left me prone to long rants on web forums although I do hope that through my often red wine induced rants that I have managed to inform at least a few parents of symptoms to look out for should they be as unlucky as we were. That's all I want to do.