Quack medicine- "wellness" almost killed a child- and yet regulations are still "voluntary"

[plumandolive]

Alternative medicines are to be "regulated"- but the regulation is "voluntary"
What on earth is the point of that?

voluntary regulation

And what on earth has blooming Prince Charles got to do with it?

"wellness" almost kills 11 yr old

Also- Prince Charles poking his nose in winds me up......

reikizen
if you aren't very bright, and listen to your doctor, apparently not.

this is from the artcle

"Her father was almost certainly acting on the advice of a deluded doctor like Ian Raddatz, who himself is a victim of Mannatech?s official promises of wellness and illegal hints of miracle cures."

I should add "not very bright doctor"

I went to a chiropracticer when I was pregnant with DS. I had bad pains, I could not say what or where they were, round my bump and down my left leg. I could hardly sleep.

After a visit to the hospital and CTG to check it was not labour pains (I knew it wasn't, it was my second child) the doc gave me painkillers which I was obviously reluctant to take.

The chiropracticer took one look at my back and pronounced that one of the vertebrae was out of alignment, got me to lie on my tummy (HA! At 7 mths pregnant) and pressed my spine quite hard.

The effect was immediate. I had no pain, the numbness in my leg was gone. It was incredible.

So, anyone saying that chiropracticers are quacks have clearly not been to a really good one.

A lot of CAM practitioners in Germany are normal GPs or Paediatricians btw, and most treatments are paid for by the health insurance.

chiropracters

I am learning all the correct English terms from this thread.

I think part of the problem is that there isnt enough good research.

for example you mention acupuncture, most of the research is doubleblind with two control groups, but what is really needed is three control groups. (one with needles in accurate places/one with needles in far away places and one with no actual needling, but 'fake needling').

Also there is a huge issue with doubleblind trials in something like acupuncture. To be doubleblind both participant and practionner need to be unsure as to what is being don. Yet for acupuncture to get the best results it requires an experience practioner to undertake a clear diagnosis and place needles correctly. It is very hard to do this doubleblind as they would know which part of the experiment they were in.

Which are the ones that 'move your head bones around"

And for acupuncture, I suppose one has to belive in Qi and yin and yan, meridians etc, much of which is a philosophy rather than a science, and then the whole thing becomes holistic in it's truest meaning...

the thing is many quacks inc high profile quacks like holford and "dr" Gillian mckeith give a pseudo scientific bent to this tosh

many titles are unregulated anyone can set up as a "therapist".at present nutritional therapist isnt a protected title.no mandatory qualification.CPD or training

in comparison other allied health professsionals eg dieteticians,physio,OT are state registered and accounatable are regulated by Health professional council.with sanction of being struck off if incompetent

plumolive ... you don't have to believe in any of those things to have acupuncture, or to understand the theory, just as you don't have to believe or understand much of western medicine for it to have an effect.

Also with Yin and Yang, there is nothing to believe it just seems to work. I had to write an essay about how anything that didn't fit into the theory and it was really hard!

You ahve to remember that the yin and yang theory had whole academies set up for 100s of years looking into the different approaches and understanding of the theory.

And as with western science it is being adapted and improved constantly.

If acupuncture works consistently for anyone (double blind tests etc) then it isn't alternative any more. Have we actually got to that point with it?

nope. It is still alternative as it is not conventional western medicine.

Although GPs can do a course in it, I'm still not quite sure but I think it is 8 weekends as opposed to the 4 years that acupuncturists have to do (There are a LOT of points and they need to be found accurately). Still, some GPs do homoeopathy as well and that is still unacceptable to many of these eminents.

When you say "nope" do you mean "nope it doesn't work consistently in double blind tests"

I was answering your direct question onager
"Have we actually got to that point with it?"
Answer; nope.

Thanks. I honestly wasn't sure which bit you were refering to.

Acupuncture looks interesting and it would be kind of cool if it did work, but I figure if it did someone would have proved it by now.

A parent of a child in DD's class trained as an acupuncturist in China for several years. She was very disparaging about GPs or midwives who do a couple of weekends and then offer acupuncture at very high cost and little effect to their patients.

Part of the problem would be solved simply by regulating the terms though, would it not? If the job description "nutritionist" was protected and nutritionists could only practice after passing exams on the subject, then it would be easier for patients to choose a good one.

The system in Germany is very different as they have official Ausbildung (apprenticeships) that are state run and controlled. This covers everything from plumbers to nutritionists, but not acupunturists sadly.

It does not solve the problem of how to decide which job is legitimate and actually helps the patients.

Onager thats a Cranial Osteopath

And we have one

and guess what, she helped the baby sleep!

Was it an amazing medicine technique? Probably not; soothing massage from an experienced practitioner quite probably.

But unlike many quacks she promised nothing of medical significance and having checked her literature does not; she talks about relaxation and de-stressing which is fine. She is especially practised with SN kids and works in a SN school, relaxing and providing touch therapy. No cure, just relaxation and the things that brings.

Quack medicine ios downright dangerous and a register should be necessary for anyone promoting anything that claims to cure serious illness or prescring / recommending herbal preps as a lot of herbs etc can be contraindicated by pregnancy and many otehr things.

However on the other side I think massages and things such as CO, chiropractor (theres a Chiro at my mum's GP btw) are another level. Affiliation to an over riding bosy is essential and perhaps registration, but a lot of it is about educating the public about what they can really expect I think.

There's some research nd studies about acupuncyure working, but by no means has it enetered mainstream medicine...
I think doctors are more open to alternativ techniques these days, which is why I was surprised that thumbwitch thinnks there's a campaign against them.

acupunture works

Guardian about acupuncure and back pain from BMJ

I think chiropractory sounds very sensible
chiropractor

It talks about nerves, pressure and relief.

where I lose the plot is when thngs like "life forces", "energy" etc.

This really sounds suspicious Quantum Touch someone does that near here, and tried to explain it to me.....

I once started a new job in Glastonbury; somebody said to me jokingly 'you alright with the hippies then?' I answered 'Oh yes as longa s you don't all build yourself homes from crystals to protect yourself from the negative energies from the PC'

looked around and guess what? every PC covered in a row of crystals.........

ooops

Why not look at the numbers of people killed by conventional medicine every year?

the quickest study I could find

will look for more

plumandolive - in reality, there isn't much mystical about energies/life forces. As human beings, we are run on electricity - measurable electrical current. Our nerves have tiny electrical impulses that travel at inconceivable speeds, our muscles are all fired by electricity - EEGs and ECGs pick up the electrical impulses. We have no electricity = we are dead. Just read electricity as energy or life force - same thing.

hthis is also from the usa

excusez moi