Okay, so I think we have got the message that Social Workers have a difficult job - we get you - but you know that when you become one and if you can't do your job properly - resign!

[thenewme]

Your job is to protect children, not to be best mates with the parents.

I am just so sick of hearing how hard their jobs are like that is an excuse for the fact that yet another child was under their "care" and they failed them.

Nothing has changed in decades and I doubt it ever will.

Had a social worker years ago whilst prg,as i was very young, even then i worked out they spread themselves far to thinly to be any good to man nor beast.

Yes, if all the social workers resign then that'll be much better for children at risk

"they spread themselves far to thinly to be any good to man nor beast".

Its not like SWs choose to be so over worked. Are any of us willing to train up and help resource them better? No. If the OP gets her way then more will resign and they will be spread a whole lot thinner.

True, true, but she isn't one anymore!

But yes I take your point, she was the first sw I came across who was actually human!

DB - the social workers my mother has are her 'best friends'.

in her opinion or yours?

Well they call in for a cuppa, have a laugh, they dump teenage boys on her, they behave more like friends and there are no questions asked.

artichokes - How about this as a simple rule for SWs:

Child already physically abused, to such a degree that he ended up in hospital >> take him into care

Baby not even born yet. As such, there is no definite way of knowing he will be abused >> don't take him into care.

Yes, we were outraged at SS striving to take newborns into care. Yes, we are also outraged that Baby P was so visibly abused so many times and yet wasn't taken into care.

The two positions are not incompatible.

I think the OP is rude beyond belief. What's brought this on, please don't tell me it's teh Media pouncing on social services RE the Shannon Matthews thing

Clif if she iis a foster carer then aren't they just doing their job?
If they were all going off to the pub together would be a bit different.
'Have a laugh' - I laugh with people in my job, doesn't mean we are mates,.

Clif if she iis a foster carer then aren't they just doing their job?
If they were all going off to the pub together would be a bit different.
'Have a laugh' - I laugh with people in my job, doesn't mean we are mates,.

"on registers, taken off registers"

Can I ask. Do you think that once someone is on an at risk register they should remain there for the rest of their childhood?

Wow. Let's do as much as we can to make the good, hard-working SWs feel good about themselves.

Ask yourselves how many lives HAVE been saved as a result of their work.

They didn't kill these children. I don't usually weigh in to support social services, but this is a very unfair attack.

Of course not- once mitigation is in place, they can be removed.
The problem is there are not enough sw in this country. 25% vacancy rate- it's ridiculous. They are so overstretched, regardless of how good (or not) they are.

aitch - I quite agree. You hear constantly about how apalling social workers are. As if they tortured the poor little lad to death. It wasn't them what did it! It was the boy's mother and her partner and various other scummy hangers on. It really isn't complicated. Now whilst I agree that SW should be able to prevent this happening, this is the real world and shit happens and some of it can't be stopped. The fingers should be pointing firmly at those who carried out the actions, not those who tried to help and failed. Questions need to be asked and procedures tightened up without doubt, but don't demonise the poor bloody foot soldiers.

When I was 'at the coal face' I ran myself ragged and did a bloody good job. I was rarely thanked (except by my clients) and no-one I helped ever spoke up in public and explained the benefits of social work intervention. I was aware that I worked in a blame culture where my own organisation and the public at large would crucify me if anything went wrong.

Over the last decade i have seen good workers retire, go to less stressful jobs and be replaced by a number of not very good workers. I try my hardest to bring them up to scratch and make sure that they turn into capable workers, but there are no hordes of talented social workers coming along to replace them.

I am so sick of these social worker bashing threads-come and have a go if you think you're hard enough and show us how to do it then. Just remember, you'll probably get it wrong once or twice and if you're very lucky a child won't come to serious harm.

The thing is, as a parent, if you were a SW and removed a child from its parents wrongly, you would never forgive yourself either. It's not like care is some sort of wonderful haven for a child, who, in spite of their parents' quite obvious inadequacies, probably would still choose to be among their family.

We are talking about judgement calls here - huge decisions with massive impact being made by people who are just human beings doing their jobs. SWs aren't omniscient but lazy.

I am a mental health SW.

Whilst I cannot in all honesty say that mistakes are not sometimes made, I think it also needs to be acknowledged that SWs work within the law as set by parliament.

The children act dictates that all efforts must be made to keep children with their families. So courts demand evidence of attempts to work with families to make a situation safe before they will grant a court order to remove the child.

tiredemma - i think you made a better choice with MH nursing

Can't believe how judgmental people are about SW

There is a serious national shortage of SW - councils struggle to fill the job vacancies (they don't have the luxury of sorting out good from bad!) - or sacking the ones who get 'depressed'

Maybe if we respected social workers more (instead of slagging at every opportunity) then more good quality people would go into this profession.

It's not as simple as 'Child already physically abused, to such a degree that he ended up in hospital >> take him into care' - they have to provide evidence that is was the parents (who lie).

There are probably many children who have been saved - but we don't ever hear about those.

I have no faith in social services whatsoever. My nephew was repeatedly physically abused by my sil's partner. When ss finally intervened, the policeman said that they had never seen anything like it in 20 years of being on the force. His mother had a history of violent relationships, drug abuse and mental health problems. We were approached to adopt him, should she lose custody but were told that because he is mixed race, he probably wouldn't be placed with us as we couldn't address his cultural needs.

His foster mother told me that the extent of his injuries were so bad that he really couldn't have taken another beating.

Guess where he is now? Back with his Mother, because ss think that is the best place for him. Back with his mother who has already done so much to damage his life. I know that I am bitter and biased but having gone through the farce of a system, I wouldn't trust them with my dog.

It's impossible for a SW to be 100% right all of the time. The vast majority do get it right but we don't know because it's meant to be hidden.

now, i've sat in an office and argues for a child to be removed that I still truly belive is at risk and been refused (as a professional) and it made me bloody angry.

As for derpession , I think yu'll find that's failry common ion many caring sector jobs, indeed its fairly accepted ime because it is so widespread the link is pretty clear. have the decency to resign? what so you won't be able to claim any benefits and will lose your home and the children will probably receive no replacement and be even more at risk?

BTW No I am not a SW. Indeed my only user experience has been negativcve (with disability team).

I think we need to get real about what the job is, be aware how very complex it is making judgements all the time. Get the right people in the first place- SW was a degree I considerd but couldn't do as the Uni here runs in in a very intene way no parent could manage realistically (as they will tell you if you apply).

Don't demonise the SW though. Demonise the crap sw's. A different thing entirely.

I trained as a social worker but went into the youth justice sector and worked with offenders. SW is a hard job, underfunded and with too much to do. Poor management doesn't help.

Taking children into care is incredibly complex. Also research shows how damaging to a child it is to remove it from the family (even where abuse has taken place) so the emphasis is on keeping the family together where possible. This is incredibly difficult to assess for anyone. WHEN should a child be removed.

My view is that the whole service requires modernisation. Social workers in child protection are caught in a no win situation when working with a family. They have to try and get the family on side so they will cooperate and at the same time protect the child. Those 2 things are not compatible in my view. There should be system where someone is appointed to represent the interests of the child - early. (They do this when it gets to court). This person needs to be active in the case and visit etc. They need to have powers to see where the child sleeps, to spend time with the family etc.

Also - they need to get their risk assessment skills sorted out. The probation service has done this and are pretty expert at assessing and managing risk after a period of modernisation in terms of priniciples and approaches. It moved from an agency that helped offenders to one which managed risk and protected the public. A real culture shift. Yes they still make mistakes but they hold offenders to account for the most part.

Finally - their training and ethos needs to change. There is an emphasis on not judging people. Well I'm afraid we have to be judgemental sometimes. A dirty house is not acceptable and shouldn't be tolerated for instance - though a social worker would seldom address this for instance.

I could go on and am blathering a bit but I really feel the culture around child protection must change and it must be funded. Personally, now as a member of the public and not a professional, I would contact the NSPCC with a child protection concern rather than social services. I think they are better equiped to deal with it.

On the whole I feel extremely sorry for social workers: the good work they do generally goes completely unacknowledged and when they fuck up (which, let's face it, all of us do in our work from time to time) the consequences are horrific beyond bearing.

And they work in a system which makes it literally impossible for them to succeed.

I thought Camilla Batmanghelidjh's piece in the Times had it about right: if we want never to have to read about a Baby P again, what we need to do is make it plain to government that funding social support is a top priority. An underfunded system where social workers are dealing with too many emergency cases to actually make the visits they need to make, will kill children.

I agree that social workers identify too closely with clients, and that here is a general lack of perspective. Yes, the parents might have had terrible parenting, lack of opportunities and live in deprived areas, but that doesn't mean that they should be judged by different standards when it comes to basic childcare.

The laws are being changed on animal protection so that abuse/cruelty isn't required to remove an animal. An owner is held to a standard of required care, and the animal can be removed if these basic needs- access to water, food, exercise, clean bedding etc.- aren't being met. SS don't apply this standard for children.

Look at the requirements councils have for families seeking to adopt or foster. Then look at the siuations they are happy to leave children in with their biological parents. Trying to keep children in the home should not be the default position.

We're not living in the 50s, adoption/fostering doesn't have to mean cutting off contact with biological family, and I think that the default position should be to keep contact not residence. Every child should surely be entitled to a clean bed, regular meals and the right to live without the threat of violence. The importance of stability is under-rated