Any social workers out there that could explain WHY? Re Dreadful case reagarding 17 month old

[Doobydoo]

Are there any social workers out there that can explain how something like this can happen?
How does the system operate?
What can be done to make it better?

since when is it hard to remove a child? There was that mum who had 3 removed and adopted out and it took years for her to prove she hadn't done anything. She had to go to Ireland to have the 4th!
I've known other kids snatched cos a neighbour reported the kids never went to school - they were farking home educated.

And, when you ask for help cos you are at the end of your tether, there isn't any or it takes months to 'get an assessment'.
I can't get help with dd cos I am disabled and dd is disabled so there's been years of the two departments bickering over who is going to pay for it. Luckily I'm not likely to hurt dd but there's parents who would crack after years of no sleep and a child who screams and screams.

yes stealth. I really believe that of all the social workers I have met, it is a thankless although sometimes very rewarding job.

and smacking should be banned. no grey areas in terms of physical abuse would be helpful imo.

the problem with that stealth is that SS cannot reveal the deatils of the THOUSANDS of children they have saved from abuse and neglect.
they aren't able to release the stories of children who have been removed and reahbilitated by the hard work and dogged determination of a asingle Sw who stay's at work will all hours making dsure she has her paperwork water tight for the morning case hearing.

We don't need a campaign of support. we need teh red tops to stop employing such lazy journalists who refuse to submit anything that is properly researched.

did you konw 'that mum' personally or are you basing your judgement on what you've read in the newspapers?

there is no doubt that child protection is under resourced. it's not exactly a feel good vote winner is it? most of the time we don't want to hear about the horrible, desperately cruel things that happen. then we focus on the stories the tabloids pick up and bay for heads to roll.

no one seems to have picked up on the post below which states that 1-2 children are killed by their parents every week. that makes the outcry over one particular case so obscene. wake up folks this is going on all the time. and to blame social workers for it when in fact they prevent a huge number of additional potential deaths is insane.

x posts mamazon

I would not want to be a SW...it must be such a difficult job in itself, made more difficult by a system that just works against them , instead of with them....they tend to be damned if they do and damned if they don't!
The system does need overhaul and there should be more staff, etc...and whilst I know that that might never will happen, I think it should.

It's difficult to understand how these things happen....and of course it wasn't just SW that let the Child down, everyone that dealt with that family has let that child down and everyone is, therefore, partly responsible for the childs terrible life and death.

There was a case in the local area not that long ago, where a Babygirl was seen 30times in her 50something days of life and she died following the terrible abuse she had to endure. At least the man who did it was punished as appropriately as it is possible within our lawsystem,as he got a lifesentence in prison.

It would be interesting what people in this field think needs to happen....they will be the best to pinpoint the flaws of the sytem...and for that reason I really don't understand why some people reacted so strongly to the OP.

but the red tops print what the public will buy and read
If it was widely accepted that SWs on the whole are doing a good job in impossible circumstances there would be less of a demand for sensationalism and the stereotypical "child snatcher" / "coffee drinker while children are hurt"

stealth in an 'emergency situation' the police have the power to remove a child not social workers although they will work closely together, social workers themselves can only remove a child if they have a court order,
again resources come in to play when you have to consider if a child can be placed somewhere safely for example with friends or family or emergency foster carers

Stealthpolarbear, its often the press/media that shape people's attitudes not vice versa.

Unfortunately some of the press do not feel its their responsibility to present an accurate picture of the realities and limitations of social work. The coverage has now become so personalised that the Sun is campaigning for the social services staff involved to be sacked.

Its become a trial by media.

No doubt this child was failed by the adults he depended on. Witch hunts don't help. As I said I am a social worker who wouldn't consider working in child protection at the moment. This area of social work has significant problems attracting skilled staff and no wonder!

There are so many difficult issues and dynamics going on here. Underlying these are normal human emotions of revulsion and anger for this little innocents death.

everyone has to take responsibility in cases like like - the paed (obviously...) the 15 year old who sat by and watched the little boy be abused, the 'childminder', the natural father, neighbours, friends. It's a wider issue. It can not be blamed on social services alone - they are doing a lonely, thankless, bloody difficult job - it is everyone's responsibility. They all crawl out the woodwork now to try and shift the blame but it's too little too late

I've been wondering about the paed a lot. I have never known a medical professional to abandon treatment or examination of either of my children, and I've had plenty of opportunity to observe this. DD has to have blood samples taken, been on drips, since she was a baby. DS has had several uncomfortable abdominal ultrasounds. And this woman was supposedly a specialist in dealing with children.

I have to say that I do understand the problems and ambiguities surrounding multi-agency procedures, but can't help thinking that had the doctor demanded X-Rays etc.. the lad would have stayed that night in hospital and not been subjected to the final attack which took his life.

Just want to add a bit of an 'anecdotal' statistic that a SW I know gave me. Apparently 80% of a SW job is now administrative. The beaurocrasy is huge. I would be AMAZED if kids are taken from parents without full and very thorough assessment. It would not surprise me if beaurocrasy didnt play a part in the terrible circumstances surrounding the death of baby P.

To be frank you probably have to be a bloody good typist and very literate in IT (as well as being observant, patient & shrewd) plus also have excellent communication skills and be able to keep a handle on stress etc in order to be up to the job these days. Oh and also don't ever expect to be thanked.

I would hazard a guess that being a social worker is a significantly office bound job now.

Spot on Izzyboy, most of my time is spent filling in forms and inputting data. We are judged by this not by the quality of our interactions with clients.
Our funding depends on us meeting targets and client contact often has to be factored in to all the paperwork not vice versa.

Believe me this is a common complaint from social workers and their managers.

Yep I based my guess work on the fact that my SW friend is no longer based in the community. In order to 'centralise' the teams (ie save money) many were moved to ...wait for it...an old call centre!!! Says it all really don't ya think?

Well, shouldn't social workers be jumping up and down and shouting about how shit it is that they are supposed to spend 80 per cent of their time filling in forms? Shouldn't they be protesting to the DH and DCSF?

As for children never been taken from their parents without a thorough assessment, there have been quite a few very high profile cases where that has actually happened. Was it Nottingham SS that were slammed by a judge a few months ago for steaming in and removing a child without bothering to obtain a court order first?

It's not as simple as 'SWs are far too ready to believe abusive parents' or 'SWs are far too suspicious' - there are systemic problems which end up causing injustice at both extremes.

Camilla Cavendish's mention of 'groupthink' probably gets to the heart of it.

Thanks so much to the people who work in the system/or who know people who do.It is interesting to hear that 80% of the work is admin.
I really do think that the system needs changing.I wonder if it will?

Well yes I think social workers are vocal about the amount of paperwork they have to plough through, but as we all know, in huge organisations it takes a frustratingly long time for changes to occur.

Of course errors occur edam and you have highlighted the 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' nature of the work nicely. The fact of the matter is that there are procedures in place for all areas of Social Work and I am sure at times it must seem the processes are onerous.

The admin is enormous and much more involved than any other professionals (although the police and teachers moan more) but the case recording and planning is required in detail by the courts.

I think we need proper admin support, limited case loads and weeding out the ineffective workers. Sadly the experienced and able aren't queuing up to do the work, so the load falls disproportionately on those of us that choose to stay. The news coverage will not help recruit more workers, buoy up a demoralised work force and will add to the load as all and sundry will be on the phone to the nspcc who will simply pass the concerns on.

Any other cp sw's here, or police, paediatricians or others 'in the trade'? Just me?

ASW...I only do some work as a residential Relief support worker working with children and teenagers who display challenging behaviour....and you are right the admin work int eh field is enourmous...I used to be a nurse, and you are correct, whilst admin in any Health and Social care sector will always be big, it is worse when working with children in that field....

Tbh, all teh legislations, etc. were to some extent what put me off going into Socialwork...

Do you think anything will change...and do you think if the public showed a bigger interest, etc...would that change anything within the services?

I think if the media told the truth about what we do, the legal constraints within which we have to operate and the fact that Child Protection is everyone's responsibility things might change.

As ASW said all this furore will lead to difficulties recruiting skilled staff,yet more administrative tasks and possibly an increase in care proceedings due to an increasingly risk aversive culture.

This case is horrific and truly heart breaking. Clearly mistakes were made but these need to be considered in a wider context. I really fear that this won't happen

So did the SWs who were responsible for those 60 visits decide not to follow up because there was too much paperwork involved? I'm sorry, but someone has to be held accountable.

Thinking about it... if SWs 'can't prevent people killing children' (as that stupid woman Sharon Shoesmith stated) when they've had 60 opportunities to intervene, then why do we have social workers anyway??? I do have friends who are social workers by the way - lovely, caring people who work very hard - but, the SWs involved in this case AND the paediatrician, should be struck off. Does anyone else on this thread agree, or are we just being polite?

Oh, that line about SWs being damned if they do and damned if they don't really tees me off. All anyone asks them to do is use their judgement. They have qualifications, training and experience and should use them to assess the evidence. Just as doctors and nurses do.

A common thread running through lots of contentious cases seems to be that the professionals involved - not SWs alone but docs and HVs and police and nurses and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all - sometimes jump to conclusions and then refuse to think about any new facts, just twist them to fit into the predetermined view of the world.

A very eminent doctor once told me about his experience of having a patient accused of MSbP (now rebranded as FII). He thought it was very unlikely as he'd known this patient for a jolly long time. Tried to suggest to the others that perhaps they'd put the cart before the horse and should look at the evidence, checking for the most likely explanations before trying any far fetched theories. They turned on him, howled him down and threatened him, just for daring to suggest it might be worth thinking about what they were doing.

If people of his professional standing can be threatened for daring to challenge groupthink, what the hell chance do ordinary parents have?

And to answer your question, whevme, that paediatrician who said the poor child was 'cranky' and missed his broken back should be struck off. And prevented from working until the GMC have heard the case.

Dunno about the SWs because I don't know enough about the involvement of each individual. But clearly something went terribly wrong. And it is incredibly scary to hear the professionals say 'there was lots of good practice' or 'we couldn't have done anything else'. Anyone who has so little comprehension isn't really fit to look after anything more complicated than a lego brick.