Does anyone know WHY people hurt children??? Genuinely interested

[JustFanciedAChange]

Have namechanged because I think this type of thread could be percieved as self serving, but I really am genuinely interested, and I have no understanding of this at all. Does anyone have an insight about why people harm children? is it because they can't cope? Is it because they are mad? Do they vindictively want to hurt a child? Are some people just plain evil?
I'm not trying to sound naive but it just absolutely flummoxes (?) me. How on earth does this happen? How could three people be involved in the same abuse?...
Waffling, I'm sorry.

The lady I know visits homes of families that are struggling for one reason or another. It might be part of homestart, I can't remember, but she visits about once a week and it sounds very worthwhile. Just to give a bit of support and the benefit of her (good parenting) experience. But if guess if she also had serious worries, this would be another way of alerting someone and helping a child.

I was thinking about this again last night, and wondering maybe whether lack of education, good role models, internet mis-use etc was causing this but then I thought of that Fritzl monster in Austria who seemed to live a normal life among a normal community and he was pure evil as well, and what could have stopped him? Maybe there is just an evil streak among the human race.

Tbat's homestart yes, they do a fantastic job the volunteers- good on your friend . And yes, there are times when the input acts as an early warning system. A great many of 'our' (still think like that, 5 years since I left LOL) and there for non-sw related reasons- disabled child, PND, isolation- bit it does vary, and my area was an unusual one (I ws the surestart homestart worker- try sayng that drunk LOL!) and most of my famillies were on the SW lists- not all deceidedly but the majority.

SGB I know you work (I think you do) but have you thought about volunteering with HS if you want to take that route. They always have infinitely more famillies than volunteers and you'd chgange somebodies life potentially. The ethos is that by supporting the aprent you support the family and I beleive in that 100%.

I have just rang my local homestart and put my name down as a volunteer . The next 10 week training course starts early next year. I really feel like I NEED to do something as I am so disturbed by the tragedy of baby Peter. This thread has been very informative, thank you.

I'd like to do it too, but have my own baby to look after full time at the moment. I will phone and get provisional details in the meantime until he starts pre-school or I can get some help with him .

Well done suwoo- you amde me smile there. Our volunteers were so special- can I give the example of one who supported a Mum and dad with Sn for just a few hours (helping them learn about feeds etc) and enabled the family not just to keep their baby, but to be spectacular parents? Or the volunteer who was the only person a Dad whose wife was dying from cancer had to talk to?

Most famillies are far less challenging and just need a cup of tea, a prompt to join the mother and todler group etc. Simlpe, easy things that make so much difference.

the course is great fun as well, but incredibly interesting. Is it 1 day a week you will do? We tan ours over 8 weeks but extended the hours from 4 to 6, thre is flexibility for the scheme but they ahve to cover everything iyswim.

talia- well done

Can anyone explain why the second male in the Baby P case can be named, but the mother and her partner can't?

I will definitely look into that for next year: my DS is 4 and starting school in September which will give me more time. RIght now I work part-time in a variety of flexible jobs to fit round his 2.5 days a week at nursery; once he is in fulltime school it will be easier (because right now I can't take time away from paid work to do volunteer work).

Peachy and Talia, I don't know how I will manage it as I also have my own toddler to look after and no child care. I feel SO strongly about this that this is my contribution in Peters memory.

No iea yeahbut, sorry. Better Lawyer?

RE the toddler- chances are the homestart poeple can recommend creche etc (they may run one, its often better for them if they do) for the training; after that you are free to state when you can volunteer- so if you have say a helper who can take LO in the evenings / weekends than ask for that. the trick is to be honest abut what you can manage s that you can be matched wit a family that also can fit into your needs without a struggle.

SGP that's perfectly understandable, know what it's like- first time i've ever been a proper sahm myself (always been either at working or University) and its incredible the difference not having to juggle appointments etc with basic living- even now I'm offiicially a carer X2 which means I have some form of income even though its a pittance

I was hoping that they may run a creche or a friend could have him for the course. I work evenings myself, so will have to squeeze it in somewhere, but God, its worth it eh!

YeahBut, an earlier BBC report named all three people but I think this has been decided to protect the latest child of the couple as well as the woman's older children.

I'm going to be a bit pitchforkery too and say that according to a friend of mine who knows, there will be no such secrecy in the prison system and the people working there often tip the other inmates off. They will be guarded from violence it seems, but not from the utter hatred of the people they will have to live with.

to volunteer with homestart you only have to provide 2hrs a week support.

tat may be scheme dependent then, we asked 3-4 hurs. For most thugh its the training that is the hurdle.

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can systematically, over many months beat a child to death. But I do think that a lot of agressive parenting, the sort of stuff you see in the street and makes you draw breath, is because these parents think that the child is a miniature adult, and should respond like a adult, and then get frustrated when the child does something "childish".

So they interpret opening a cupboard and taking out pans as being deliberately messy, whereas the child is just exploring the environment, or engaging in make believe play. They interpret not eating something specially bought for the child as ingratuitude, when the child may not be hungry.

There is a power play issue also.

And I think some people do not make any attempt to shield their children from other stressors. A sort of "if my life is shit yours is too" attitude, whereas I'd like to think that most people might make an attempt to guard small children from the ugly reality of adult life.

rempy I agree with you. I think too many adults really don't have even the most basic understanding of child development and so are unaware that their child's behaviour is not naughty or deliberately obstructive. For adults who have grown up in a loving, nurturing environment, that's fine because they kind of muddle through and their instincts are good so it doesn't matter a jot that they don't know anything about a child's motivation. But for those who have not had a loving, nurturing environment modelled to them as the norm, those awful parenting lessons they learned from their childhood, plus the lack of any updated knowledge, can lead to them not knowing how to respond appropriately to their children being children.

So instead of exams before one can become pregnant or a parent how about classes where good parenting is taught? It couldn't be compulsory on becoming pregnant and obviously not everyone needs parenting classes, but something along these lines must be possible?

How would such a compulsary course be policed though?
what would happen if the person failed to attend the pareting classes?

and just because someone attends a class, doesn't mea they will engage.

Sadly i have had parents sent o my classes by the courts and as such have had to be there. they sit and refuse to participate in any real way.
I actually had one parent where i lost my temper and said, in front of the class that he was going to sit here for the next 20 hours (2 hours a week for 10 weeks) so he could either use the time constructivly and face the possibility of becoming a better parent or sit there bvored stupid and remain the useless feckwit he was today.

for some reason he never returned and ended up back i court. some people dont WANT to be better parents.

How depressing and frustrating that must be Mamazon.

I suppose if people haven't got anything out of school they're far less likely to be positive about any learning experience at all.

It's also important not to make 'OK' parents (the ones who take the kids to KFC once a week/smoke at home/don't iron/are single and young) feel snooped on, bullied, judged and policed by people who are officious or power-mad. Social services (and by association most or all healthcare professionals) have an appalling reputation in some areas as The People Who Take Your Kids Away after the Cleveland/Orkney scandals.
Perhaps more funding of in-community training (to use a horrid term) might be a good idea, ie funds for an adviser/helper to arrange the setting up of a group for local parents to run by themselves for mutual support. Because a lot of bad parenting (mild neglect, irritability) that is not the stuff of exceptional nightmares like the Baby P case) is to do with ignorance, isolation, stress and depression: being helped to help yourself can be effective for this sort of thing rather than help being imposed from Authority.

rempy, lb and sgb - all excellent posts.

Parenting- all kids should do9 parenting at school, its far more important than art or whatever. My school did gcse chil development and yes, it taught me lots.

I do worry about labelling abusers though as the ones wh dont now abut kids- abuse is in all parts of society, every strata. There's a sw in the papers atm and a police officer. I suspect useful techniques for managing stress are far more relevant in that way. Combine the two (stress management and Cd) and you're there.

SGB your post is excellent. Can we add parents of sn kids in there too? far too many professionals rather label a parent of an asd kid a bad parent than help.

I think that a 'parenting' class really should include some teaching on the idea that parenthood is optional. I do rather think that some cases of abuse/neglect may have their roots in the idea that parenthood just sort of happens and it's just something that 'everybody' does, so people who don't much like or understand or want children end up with children they don't look after very well. This is not at ALL to say that people who have an unplanned PG, go through with it and make the best of it are bad parents (FFS I didn't think I wanted children but I don't beat or neglect my DS - acknowledging to myself that there are times I wonder wistfully what a childfree life would be like is not to say I want him to not be here).

I looked at that story for the first time today, with my hand over my mouth, just recoiling physically at every injury

I watched my 17mo and could not think of a single way in which anyone could feel the need to hurt him in that way

he does nothing, nothing wrong, nothing annoying, nOTHING

he's a little whisp of skin and hair and softness, wearing a nappy

how some fucker could hurt that baby

Jesus
and I thought I was a bad mother