So what will actually change under Obama to make the world a better place?

[MadameCastafiore]

Honestly I would like to know what you expect him to be able to do?

Given he could not singlehandedly end the war as a mere senator for the opposition party, Obama voted for funding the TROOPS - ie giving them proper equipment. He opposed the war from the start and wants to end it, and now he is a position to start that process.

guyFAwkesreQuiem, I'm the same about voting. Get jitters everytime and normally end up wasting it by voting independent, green or spoiling the paper with rude words. I'm rubbish at democracy. I still think it seriously remains to be seen what he can follow through on.

mabanana, Blair's problem was his vanity, really. gesticulates in an 'open' manner with both hands You know, he was... just a... normalkindaguy. [vom]

ah yes, democracy. That nice western word. What makes you think Afghanistan wants it anyway? I don't think it does,FWIW.

Not sure who is saying what re: this Taleban discussion, but one thing is certain; the US left the Taleban well alone for many years to murder women, burn down schools and hospitals and destroy livelihoods with impunity. Nobody did anything. There will never be an American 'victory' in Afghanistan and the Taleban will never be defeated because Talebani is a state of mind and it is synonymous with anti Americanism.

ffs sake yourself Dittany!
You are really grasping at straws here. How can a self-styled liberal feminist not see that wanting to end the Iraq war, closing Guantatamo, believing in Habeus Corpus, extending healthcare to the poor (disproportionately women, of course), supporting abortion rights, supporting dialogue between India and Pakistan, ad infinitum is a GOOD thing, while all the while supporting Sarah fricking Palin....well, words fail me.

KayHiding problem is round here they never seem to put forward a Lib Dem (or any other party other than Labour or Tory) candidate in General Elections, and council elections I'm often faced with a choice of ooo - 4 or 5 different candidates for my ward........all of the Tory variety) - I just can't bring myself to vote Tory - being a Thatcher child, living in the north of England during the 1980's/early 90's recession I remember watching the area we lived in decline rapidly - at the time I was too young to understand any of the politics of it - but I did know that my Dad (a yorkshireman born and bred) upped sticks and moved us all down south with the hope of providing better opportunities for my DB and I when we were older as things were so bleak "ooop North" - as I got older I learned more of the politics behind it all - and that was that - deep blooded lefty/liberal roots embedded deep within me

oh and for what it's worth. despite my cynicism about obama on this thread, if he is good to his word and rids the world of guantanomo bay (and not just by moving it elsewhere) he will have undone a supreme evil committed by the present government.

If he closes that cess-pit horror-show that is Guantanamo, then that alone justifies his election IMO. what a signal to the world.

guyFAwkesreQuiem, totally identify, although I did vote Tory once in a local election because my dad is a union man and also a total git and I was being childishly spiteful to him. They didn't get in, though (and they never would have done, which was probably a factor!)

I'm glad I'm not an american, I would have been between a rock and a hardplace with either McCain or Obama, being an odd political amalgum of the two myself.

yes, and if he is a real progressive and a true liberal he will force Israel to return the pre 1967 territories. But I cannot see that happening, sadly.

No doubt he will have a very rough time - it's hard to imagin a worse time to be in government than now. I'm clinging on to optimism while it's still possible though. Am hoping most for an environmental New Deal which Gordon Brown could follow here. But who knows.

Well, I don't suppose he will magically make all the factories in china run on babies' breath either. Or that he will make it possible for us to grow gills or wings. I think saying, 'he won't be any good at all unless he does X or Y in the next ten minutes' is not exactly sensible or realistic.

Oh you miserable miseries. What do you do at Christmas? Grump all day instead of half a day?

Bush is over, a good man with good intentions is in the White House. America has actually elected someone non-white. Who'd have thought it.

Obama's hands are going to be tied by having to find the odd 13 trillion or whatever fabulous sum he is going to have to find. But whatever he does, it's certainly going to be better than Bush/McCain/Palin.

But whatever he does, it's certainly going to be better than Bush/McCain/Palin.

---------

That's a completely unprovable statement right now. I hope it's true - it won't be for me on a couple of issues, but on the things I agree with him about, I certainly hope so.

oh really mabanana? I was expecting a cure for cancer and an end to all poverty and disease at the very least!

like I said earlier there are many reasons to be very pleased so let's give the guy a chance.

What makes me happy is the unprecedented election turn out - that really is a reason to be elated IMO. If only the miserable fuckers of Blighty could get off their lardy arses and vote when they get the chance....( sorry, I feel another thread coming on...)

I think the change he physically embodies is fantastic. He is a black (mixed race) man called Barack Hussein Obama, and zillions of Americans of all colours, looked at him and thought, 'I think he'll make a good President'. It's such a massive step forward. And he did it while espousing an anti-war, pro-poor, pro-democratic agenda. He plans to shut Guantanamo. This is a good day.
No more Bush, Cheney, Rove! It's a fricking FANTASTIC day!

And while he might not personally come up with that cure for cancer he is supporting stem cell research, so who knows what will come out of that?

Agree mabanana. I've been quite teary about it all morning.

It's tempting to get over enthusiastic about it and see him as some kind of Christ figure. Heard Simon Schama on the radio this morning talking about it. He was saying that when Thomas Jefferson said 'All men are created equal' he said it as a slave owner, and that this was America's original sin which had now been redeemed by Obama's election. I'm quite taken with this idea, but it's somewhat overblown.

Either way, it is good news and a huge relief. Right up to the last minute I had a niggling fear that the republicans might somehow steal the election again.

On a rather more trivial note, I also have quite a crush on slinky Michelle. They are a cool couple.

meh.

grouch face

I think that a president who explicitly says, in his acceptance speech, that there is a lot wrong with the US, and with the world we live in at the moment, is quite breath-taking, actually.

(And yes, they are damn good-looking.)