I don't get this. he threw his son of a balcony so

[2shoeshissbangwhoosh]

why the review
please someone explain this to me

the whole of his family have suffered serious mental health problems. Do you think everyone with mental illness makes it up?

there was an article in the guardian I think about his family background etc

sorry x posted with a few people. The guardian article is very enlightening. there is without any doubt his family background was pretty tragic but I also dont understand why they would go to these lengths...

The Guardian article

The staged conversation with the doctor while 'accidentally' on phone to the journalist is particularly odd and deceptive.

I read that article. His background wasn't worse that a lot of people's but they didn't go on to callously throw their children from a balcony.

If he is seriously mentally ill he should be in a hospital (forever), if not he should be in prison. His family should be ashamed of themselves.

I read that arcticle & it was illuminating but TBH, if his background/genes have f*ed him up that much he needs lengthy treatment & locking up while he has it.

Whether he's mad or bad, surely he is either a danger to himself or others in which case he should be sectioned on return to the UK

You know, I really have no sympathy at all. Tired of people with mental illness and tough backgrounds being tarred by association with cretins like this who refuse to face up to the dreadful things they have actually done. I've done some shitty things while in psychosis or mania, but I was wrong to do those things and no amount of 'my dad never said he loved me' is going to change that.

You are right, Kay. Mental illness is a terrible thing. It must be awful for genuine sufferers of mental illness to have to stand by and listen to evil idiots trying to avoid punishment by pretending to be ill.

what custardo said

Oh, I'm not saying he's pretending to be ill. He may well be seriously mentally ill (he could also be a very clever man with a thorough knowledge of mental health issues and be good at faking, who knows).

But he did what he did, and either needs longterm locked-up treatment, or a prison sentence. He doesn't have the option to say 'I feel reeeally sad about it, but because I've had a difficult start in life, and some mental health problems, can't we just forget about it and give me access to my daughter and fresh start?'

Um, no, we can't. You killed your son, sir. You did it. And if you truly believe it was the loopy Greco-fairies that jumped in your head and made you do it, then you really need to be kept in a nice safe, secure place with calming colours on the walls.

I thought an unlawful killing verdict was where there was death due to a criminal act

Not sure how the coroner was expected to investigate whether there was mens rea or not

Usually in cases like this doesn't the inquest get delayed until after criminal proceedings so that the this can be established?

I guess it is complicated by the fact that it was abroad - are criminal proceedings not going to be brought in the UK? (sorry not read the article)

If not I guess they will have to investigate his state of mind to establish mens rea in the JR will they not?

from what i understand cd, his family want a review so he can escape criminal proceedings in this country

i think anyway, i have slept a fair few times since i last read the article

A hearing to determine the cause of death and criminal proceedings are not inextricably linked though.

For eg if the coroner had recorded a verdict other than this it would not proclude criminal proceedings would it?

I think this explains it a bit.

"...These chilling testimonies, which portrayed Hogan as having pushed his children over, rather than having leapt with them in "a moment of madness", led Paul Forrest, the Avon and Somerset coroner, to reach a verdict of "unlawful killing", opening up the real possibility that Hogan would be charged again with murder if he returned to the UK. Although the Crown Prosecution Service announced in late September that it did not intend to press charges unless compelling new evidence was found, the possibility of a private prosecution remains.

John Hogan, who had been due to be released from psychiatric care shortly after his trial, has stayed in Greece while his family's legal team struggles to make him immune to prosecution in this country. On November 4, the high court in London will hear an application by the Hogan family for a judicial review of the coroner's verdict, calling for it to be quashed, enabling Hogan to come home a free man...."

I think the very fact that he wants to avoid criminal proceedings in this country is very odd.

If innocent(by dint of insanity), surely he would welcome the opportunity to clear his name in a court of law here?

Also, if he is criminally insane should he not go to Broadmoor or similar when he comes home? What's to stop him doing something like this again?

I cannot believe his family are pursuing this. After all, it was their nephew/grandson/cousin /whatever that he murdered. I can understand them not wanting him to go to a prison but surely they must see he needs some sort of custodial therapy?

Mmm, wonder if his family have considered that he might go on to have more children? I can't understand why they (his friends and family) wouldn't think it imperative for him to have treatment in a secure institution. For his own good - and everyone else's.

Aw, so his parents never said they loved him, now I understand why he pushed his children off a balcony. That article makes him sound worse, as if that was possible. And the last paragraph - give the man an Oscar.

I'm glad the mum and her daughter have a new life in Australia and quite right that she is not allowing him anywhere near her. I know what it is like to live with someone who is delusional, they manipulate the people around them, I wish her well.

He wants access to his daughter? Does he honestly think she wants anything to do with him after he murdered her brother and tried to do the same to her? He really has no shame.