Gordon Brown wants free nurseries for 2yo. GRRRR

[purits]

When my DC were young, there was none of this state provision of pre-school places. I had to pay for my DC's childcare. When I realised that private schools cost about the same nurseries (at this age), we went to private school because, again, state schools did not then provide the after-school clubs and wraparound care that they do today.

If my DC were a bit older, they would have had free University tuition but now they will have to pay.

I do not begrudge today's parents their free state provision but our generation seem to have been stuffed at both ends of their educational life. We have had the double whammy of having to pay for what others have had for free and also paying for those same others through my taxes. Not fair!

I think GB doesn't like childminders as there is less state regulation/indoctrination/institutionalism and they are too much like SAHMs. After all SAHMs could say they are doing the same job only unpaid whereas GB can claim that nurseries include mass socialisation and education (re targets etc).

ooh ohh oooh - just a flyingvisit and ive already posted twice - arrrghhh i knew i shouldnt have re registered.

Ok, so i will try and keep my answer balanced and ive only read the first and a few other posts. So, the OP is "whining" that it is not fair that people don't have to pay for nursery etc when her children had to. Very lucky she was to have the option of private school but i do kind of see the point, I had to pay for my eldest DDs playschool - she is 18 now. Now i will be getting free playschool for DD2 and thank god for that!! So its a bit of a petty gripe really, because there are lots of things that change for the better and worse. I was in the last year of students who received a student grant for university. Friends in the year below me had to pay it all back - one of the things that is not so good then. Things change, we can all feel a bit put out or smug about it i guess.

I agree with those who say it wont help working parents. I am looking for a job and DD is starting free nursery - although how 2.5 hours free place will help i am not sure. Not many jobs that last two hours a day around my way. I am not looking for a job because she is starting nursery, although it is a sort of guide post i have used for myself iykwim. She is definately ready to be away from mum for some time. Interestingly, she seems to want this too, its like we spend too much time together lately.

As for GB, well, he wont be around much longer will he?? Free from 2? what is he trying to acheive? Brownie points? If this is solely being sold on the "educational" standpoint, then he is full of shit, at two, they don't NEED nursery. They do OK in nursery if mum/dad have to work, but they don't NEED it.

'If this is solely being sold on the "educational" standpoint, then he is full of shit, at two, they don't NEED nursery. They do OK in nursery if mum/dad have to work, but they don't NEED it. ' great point.

I read a scary article yesterday which was saying that free nursery hours may replace tax credit money for SAHM.

I'd like to think that it wouldn't happen, or that I'd misunderstood, but it does seem to be the way things are going

OMG That would be scarily like dictatorship. Would be interested to read that article if you have a link?

Thing is GB goes on abour 'upward social mobility' 'climbing the ladder' yada yada, but some of us are happy just managing financially and not interested in MORE material or career competitiveness. Goes on and on about the benefit of more mothers into work (which would break even if the GOV paid for universal childcare, the benefits, they claim, would be 'social') but as more and more things are based on two incomes prices just go up so we really are no better off (for eg house prices). Also, where are all these jobs going to come from. Will GB be happy with mothers working p/t, I have read Gov reports stating that only f/t work is economically productive and the way forward. Also read that the Gov would like seamless care from birth to school age with pressure on poorer people (who assumably are not trusted to raise their own kids) to take up places.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4799143.ece

"Subsidising childcare earlier might be of more benefit to the family than topping up their reduced income with tax credits."

... according to some experts. Based on the Nordic model as you've said. Hope GB hasn't seen it!

I hate the way governments think it is a good thing to push mothers back to work. I thought we lived in a democracy for gods sake. We rely heavily on tax credits at the moment, we couldn't manage without them. I took the decision to be a SAHM and it has not been without huge sacrifice. But for me, not as huge a sacrifice as not being at home with DD. That is my personal circumstances and i am not disrespecting working mums in any way. But, how dare the government dictate to me how i live my life and how i care for my children. They clearly don't live in the real world. We are entitled to tax credits as we have paid tax and national insurance all our working lives.

I am looking for work now and intend to work full time when DD starts full time education. But that is my CHOICE, i will be going back to work i choose to do which will be reasonably paid. How does GB think that forcing mothers into low paid menial jobs, when they would rather be at home caring for their children, is a good thing?? I must have missed something. I am honestly confused about what he feels he is going to achieve with this pie in the sky idea. Wanker.

I feel sorry for some of these children who are in institutions from six months onwards full time. I'm sure it's necessary in some cases, perhaps even desirable in others. But my instinctive feeling is to find it sad.

er beetroot they do play at nursery

agree OP talking rubbish because feeling bitter and twisted

We live on our tax credits at the moment while I oversee DS's (1) pre-school education and help my DD who is behind with reading and maths. Oh, and who also suffers from a life-threatening medical condition.

If I had to go back to work I'd be demented from lack of sleep, unable to help DD and have to have a lot of time off. I'd be one of those terrible sub-standard teachers and everyone in my class would suffer too! Where's the logic?

Thanks for the link I think GB thinks childcare is only worth doing if it is someone elses child you are looking after. Let's face it, the childcare places are for GB benefit as studies have shown most mothers would rather stay home or work part time for the first few years. Stopping tax credits in favour of free nursery places is trying o force people to do things one way. Doesn't make sense to me to go out and get a job to pay someone to look after my kids when I am willing and able to do it myself. Yet if I was caring for a neighbours child (while they cared for mine perhaps?) GB would see me as working and contributing and 'climbing the ladder'?

Sorry purits.

I did not realise until your most recent post how much you had been doing behind the scenes for the sisterhood. Thank you for working hard at school and choosing a well paid career you enjoyed. Thank you for getting the equal pay act passed and burning your bra. Thank you for being taken seriously by letting others dictate when you could have your children. Thank you for making your own watertight arrangements. Thank you, especially, for choosing a good man to be your husband so you could afford to choose private school.

I am almost weeping as I contemplate your sacrifices for the women of Britain.

Maybe mumsnet could organise a "purits day" to ensure that others are educated on your key role in the women's liberation movement?

he needs as many people working to pay to bail out those banks whilst the fat cats walk out with millions in bonuses.

git.

£37bn in 2007 in bonuses from the top 5 banks.

God you sound bitter purits.

Can I borrow GB after you've finished with him expat. Our boiler's a bit ropey.

But in GBs defence-

I know so many single mums that would like to work part time and actually make a bit of money

I think it is all about choice, as long as CTC aren't replaced I welcome it with open arms.

though childminders should be included imo.

in fact I would like to work p/t and make money

this would make it possible (admittedly not alot but more than I am earning now)

noonki, would you really want to do a menial job for 2 hours a day and loose what you would have received in tax credits? I am highly qualified and the only thing i can think to do in two hours is cleaning. Its a catch 22 when you are a single mum or like us, dependant on benefits (despite my DP working all the hours god sends).

jafv - no, as said in my post as long as CTC (child tax credits) aren't replaced

I am confused . I thought you had to be working to get tax credits?

I think it's a good idea. There to use if you want to (SAHM or WOHM), nobody forcing it on you. But then I thought it was a good idea for 3 year olds and we didn't get to use it.

Also I don't see why it would be bad for a 2 year old to spend 2.5 hours a day elsewhere. If, as the child's mum ,you know it's not suitable, you don't take him to nursery. If you think he might enjoy it, you make use of the free place (OK, i know it's not exactly free, taxpayers pay for it etc).

if you are on tc and you get paid work, they reduce your tc so the job would have to be well paid to be worthwhile.

Wouldn't the tax credits be reduced anyway by virtue of you earning, though?