The Rich According to the Guardian

[Judy1234]

www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/aug/04/workandcareers.executivesalaries

When did riven say she tolerated a sexist man? That seems a large assumption to make!

mbti thread

The very rich get and stay very rich because they can afford the financial advice to maximise their money and hide it from the taxman as much as possible.

I resent some of the tax dodging by people like the Rolling Stones over the years and David Bowie and all these 'geezers' . Someone told me U2 had moved their operations to another country to avoid paying tax. And then Bono's saying 'Make Poverty History'. I think if you live largely in one country you should pay tax there.

But there are whole corporations which pay less tax than they should. I think it sucks considering the disproportionate amount of tax people pay on relatively low earnings!

I think the Royal Family should pay more for a start! And they should pay real death duties! Why do we have a civil list? Why should my household contribute to Prince Andrew's helicopter bill to a golf tournament in Scotland? And I don't think we should pay ANYTHING towards blardy Prince Edward, let his mummy support him!

YOu're right, nooka, she didn't except she did make assumptions about women do most of the housework etc but if women ensure equality at home and don't allow themselves to become servants then it's much easier for them to pursue careers and that's one reason some women which I suppose could apply to all classes, end up poor because they take on too much of the domestic work at home which then damages their careers.

We do have better social mobility than many countries but the interesting issue is whether it has got worse because there is no longer the grammar school route or because those who are poor now are those who aren't clever so are going to be stuck there because all those who would have been able to be socially mobile have done it (I am not sure I agree with that theory but I suppose ultimately it may be likely to occur to some extent) or because of some other reason. But that presupposes the poor are unhappy and want to be rich and there is a moral aim of ensuring everyone earns a lot which is not necessarily correct. Plenty of people are poor and happy and vice versa so perhaps it doesn't matter. We can't iron out who looks ugly and who doesn't, who is going to be mentally ill all their life etc and who isn't so why worry about some who earn more than others? It is just another inequality that is part of life and if the result of confiscatory taxation rates is that people leave the country and the amount you take in in tax to help the poor actually gets lower then there is no good reason to go back to the 60 - 90% tax rate days.

totally agree ipanemagirl. And now lewis hamilton lives in Monaco. I personally don't know enough about the intricacies of corporation tax, bit I do know it is much higher in the uk than in Ireland for example and from what I have read it is having a really damaging effect on entreprenerialism. But, I didn't incorporate my business because my accountant predicted that the tax situation would change. He was right. So am I a scumbag too?

There's an interesting thread about whether feminism should be taught in schools. I'm a bit agnostic about that because of course it should be learned at home. I work and DH works so we share the housework. Slightly unequally as he does more around the house (because I do more work).

I don't agree with your assertion Riven that high-flying women still have the responsibility for the house and childcare. IME, woemn who achieve at work have done so by either taking equality in the home as their right, or by insisting on it.

The statistics that you refer to must be about the majority of women.

The stats are indeed general. Although I suspect that is because high flying women, on the whole live in high income households that employ cleaners etc (I certainly did when dh and I both worked - what a wonderful luxury!)

Xenia, I think that loss of the grammar and assisted places routes are one cause of dropping mobility. I have already said why I think it causes problems. I would not advocate returning to punitive tax rates because the evidence suggest this loses the country money as a whole, but I don't think it unreasonable to think the dice are too loaded against the poor. Money does not make people happy, but permanently worrying about money, having no hope or aspirations for the future (especially whilst having other people's good fortune rammed down your throats) contribute to a culture of non achievement and resentment which is bad for everyone.

wasn't there something in the news about 6 months ago that siad women do 90% of thehousework even when both work full time?

Women really need to ensure they are like me, riven and Qu then and not let these idle undomesticated men get out of their fair share of chores. I think this is women's main problem more so than discrimination at work.

suey2, No I didn't mean to imply any such thing!

It's just the preaching multi-millionaire celebrities that are galloping towards their tax havens - they irritate me, it wreaks of hypocrisy, however effective they are in bringing attention to an issue.

I think it's really important that entrepreneurial energy is not squashed or squeezed out by preposterous tax regimes - certainly not.

But there are big corporations ( I think Murdoch's is one ) that are making an absolute fortune out of UK plc but they avoid tax by existing else where. I know they bring jobs but there are questions that can legitimately be asked about this.

Also some of these non dom city money makers have paid proportionately tiny amounts of tax (or none) while enjoying the lifestyle this country offers. At the same time people earning a fraction of what they earn are paying a massive percentage of tax. How can that be fair? It's a question of intelligent adjustment, no one's suggesting going back to the 70s when the poor ickle Rolling Stones et al had to move to Switzerland or wherever!

And there is something unpleasant about the uber rich who pay a tiny percentage of tax per pound sneering at the poor many of whom pay massively more. And also the middle income people who can get stung viciously if they avoid any tax while they see the big boys (and the Royal blardy family) get away with paying peanuts! Something about it just sucks in my inexpert opinion! We need wealth generators certainly but not piss takers!

who was that famous very wealthy woman that got slated in the press for making the comment "only peasants pay tax"... who was it? it's bugging me and i can't remember.

Do you mean Leona Helmsley?

yes, thank you!!

From memory I think she said only the little people pay tax. Very good line. Made me laugh but she got her come uppance didn't she (jailed or fined for tax evasion).

Foreign based companies who trade here do well for the country but we certainly have made a huge mess recently in giving British and other companies the assurances they need that the rules won't constantly be changed. Some companies have been so worried by the mess Labour has made of this they will leave whatever false assurances they are given now.