Does *anyone* like Gordon Brown?

[edam]

His own party is (justifiably) plotting against him. The mass of voters seem to be, putting it charitably, unimpressed. Is there anyone left who actually likes our PM?

Just wondering if there are any MNers who would care to defend him...

I met him at my boss's memorial where he gave a very moving speech. He seemed admirable at that event. And he's clearly clever (doesn't necessarily mean one always makes good judgments, though). Have always been suspicious of this idea that he represented the true soul of Labour, though, as the architect of privatisation and cuddling up to big business by selling out ordinary people.

Yes, dittany, almost anyone is better than TB who still turns my stomach. And also agree re likeability - that is not really the main concern with a PM or leader of anything.

Sadly, I do think Brown has blown his chances, but I don't think Cameron will be much of an improvement. And most of the Labour front benchers are disgusting.

I feel sorry for him and had thought he was a good chancellor; until I heard about him selling off our gold reserves cheap and the other bad choices that really shouldn't have been made had he been on the ball.

Lets face it after Good Time Tony and his gang he was always going to be a little flat in personality.

Tony handed him the broken crayon - it is as simple as that.

(Family saying - because when I was younger I cherished my crayons so much that I would only ever give out the broken ones to my cousin to play with. It seemed apt.)

no. I dont understand his motives. If he is as honest and principled as he makes out, frankly he's in the wrong job.

sorry for abandoning the thread, suddenly remembered I had to go out and buy present and card for friend's birthday and then actually go to their birthday do!

Ranting, by privatisation I mean the things he has rebranded that are actually privatisation - "marketisation" in the NHS, PFI, PPP etc. etc. etc. He was the one who forced through PFI on the Underground even though everyone who knew anything about it told him it was far too complex and would be a disaster, for instance. And we'll be paying huge sums of money from the NHS budget for decades for bloody hospitals that will not be what we need over those decades.

I mean, local authorities and primary care trusts now have a 'duty' to create a bloody market in commissioning/social care. Why on earth is taxpayers' money being wasted propping up the private sector? Spend the damn money on home helps or meals on wheels!

i liked him when i met him. i fancied him, more to the point.

however, not calling an election immediately was a fatal dither and it's left him hopelessly exposed.

I fancied him, then I met him, and now I fancy him more! I don't like a lot of nulabour's policies, but I think in another era - ie, before the privatisation agenda took hold - he could have been a great PM.

He seems very moral and genuine.

Yup, that's my understanding of PFI too, dittany.

I think Gordon Brown is alright, he gets a tough time for everything basicallybut all he's doing is trying to clean up after Tony Blairs crappy attempt at being PM.

The economic crisis is not his fault, the fact our troops are in Iraq and Afgahnistan again not his fault! Things Tony Blair did.

Also the poor guy his first day in full power and what happens? A suspected terror attack,a few weeks later another failed terrorist attck then what does he get hit with? Major bloody flooding then along comes the bloody stock markets and rising csts etc none of which can really be blamed on him! He hasn't had the chance to be the relaxed arse about that was Tony Blair instead he's been thrown in head first and had everything thrown at him in the mean time. I reckon we need to give him a chance to get through all that and show what he's really like.

IMO though he's doing as best he can which is all h can do.

Moral and genuine - economic crisis not his fault!!! Words fail me - what about destroying pension provision, selling all our gold (after telling the markets in advance so the price could drop to an all time low) and presiding over the creation of the biggest gap between the richest and poorest since Victorian times? He was Chancellor for over a decade wasn't he? That is how he was able to keep PFI off the books (which our grandchildren will probably be paying the price for). All the dodgy credit and excess liquidity he pumped into the system is why we are where we are. Personal debt in the UK is in excess of £1.3 trillion and external debt (i.e. money owed out of the country) is in real terms something like £6 trillion if you take into account the situation re. sterling. Don't get me started on the rest - I was Labour all my life and now feel thoroughly ashamed - they have pissed it all up the wall (see David Craig's 'Squandered' for more info.) 'Thrown in head first' - I think not! years of planning wasn't it? The only thing GB seems interested in is clinging onto power and that doesn't seem to me to be in the best interests of the Labour Party (whatever that is now) or the country - which seems to me to be technically bankrupt. The best thing he could do is a deal where he resigns and the party gets to fight it out over whether they want someone like McDonnell or Cruddas or more meo-con-lite with a Milliband or Purnell. At least whoever was chosen might have some authority. If not he will go on to drag his Party and Country down to some oblivion where they are unlikely to see power or respect anytime soon. I have no sympathy because if he has authority he doesn't use it wisely and if he can't do that he shouldn't be P.M. Two questions - What is the purpose of Labour? and who are they 'for'? Once I could answer those questions easily, now it's impossible. (I'm thinking 10p tax, devastation of civil liberties, creation of client state, sucking up to super-rich whilst buggering up the prospects of S.M.E.s etc..). The thing I hate him and his acolytes for most, is disenfranchising so many people who just want a reasonable and fair society. Who do we vote for now?

Sorry error - that should be £16 trillion external debt adjusted since 1993 for changes to sterling. Current actual figures are I believe £12.3 trillion for the UK (with a population of 60 million) compared with £12.9 trillion for the U.S. (with a population of 300 million).

Brilliant post stickybun

For what its worth as an individual I like him I think he is a hard working and principled individual - unfortunately the legacy he has was left, circumstance and his own qualities have not been enough to make a good pm - it all seems full of blunders and so lacklusture. I'm genuinely (and sadly) dissappointed in his track records I feel he has made blunders that should have been obvious admittedly circumstances don't help. I'm not a politically active individual but do believe in participating in the democratic process at election time and when the next election comes I think I genuinely will struggle to know who to vote for as unless they something changes significantly, after being a long term Labour supporter who admittedly isn't very politically astute even I am losing faith with them. Personally feel sad for him and sad for the country that its not worked out.

Feelingbadtoday I'm sure he is hardworking - working hard at wrecking the country imo but suppose have to differ on that one. He wasn't left a legacy - he created it that's what the Granita thing was all about. During his time as Chancellor he had pretty much complete power over the financial side of things. I am currently reading 'Thatcher and Sons' by Simon Jenkins - rather dry in places but doesn't half put all the bits of the jigsaw together. Feelingbadtoday on second thoughts perhaps not will result in you feelingworsetoday - that's the effect it's had on me anyway. I always vote at elections too and have sadly come to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for Labour to be utterly annihilated so that all the unprincipled ones can be pushed out and they can find out what and who they're for. 1997 wasn't a vote for Labour it was a vote for Blair and that is what needs sorting out. Unfortunately that probably means voting for Cameron but as you couldn't slide a fag paper between him and Blair on most things and they seem to be at least committed to things like scrapping I.D. it will probably make little difference. If I were Brown I would call an election now so Tories could take flak for buggering up economy. Am going out with friends now so will stop ranting - personally have not seen politics as left versus right for long time - don't think that's how it is any more. More like authoritarian v liberal - if you ignore the labels on the tin and look at what the policies do (or say they will do) most of what has passed for New Labour far out-Thatchers Thatcher. The only bit that has been successfully disguised as idealogically left-wing are things like tax credits. Same effects could have been gained by just raising threshold at which start paying tax - all with less admin and state control. Hard not to see a lot of it as creating a 'client state' particularly when you get the massive increase in people being employed in public sector, yet more and more of important stuff like hospital cleaning, SATs marking is marketised and sold off to the lowest bidder (or maybe one of your mates). What principles are those actions based on? If Thatcher had done half of what NL has done e.g. dentists, H.E. funding and student loans etc.. everyone would have been up in arms. This lot do it then have the gall to say that we should be grateful because they know it's for our own good!

Rumour has it that GB is a control freak and is poor at delegating (i.e. trusting other people). Perhaps if he had let go of the Treasury and tried his hand at Foreign Sec / Home Sec etc then he might have been a more rounded politician and therefore better PM.
It always comes back to basic character flaws.

You are dead right, stickybun. Sadly. New Labour have pissed all over the principles of the Labour party and everyone who fought to give the ordinary people of this country political representation.

My godmother's father was thrown out of his job and his (tied) house - literally thrown onto the streets with his wife and babies - for daring to stand as a Labour candidate for the council. His fellows were beaten by the police for daring to attend Labour or union meetings. Gordon Brown, Blair and their acolytes have betrayed this proud history. God rot them.

And you are right, too, purits - he appointed all these odds and sods into his 'government of all the talents' but then hides away with his cabal - the appointees never see him or hear from him, they just fire off emails into the ether with no idea whether they are ever read, let alone answered.

stickybun
loved your post..& so agree with many points ..
nulabour finished off the work of thatcher government imho and got away with the stuff they didnt have the balls for ..

this pfi will haunt us (taxpayers) and make corporate companies so very very happy..
gee thanks, gordon

did anyone say get Jack Straw in?
no no no no no

of all the back stabbing self serving goons on that party no

best to let go re group re think and do better next time

Not meaning to attack you Edam but I think that Labour supporters have let the party get away with a lot because of history and blind loyalty. Your stories are terrible but that was then and this is now. I can't see anyone being thrown on the street from their tied cottage today. But I can see someone having to have an ID card, being on a DNA database and being held in custody contrary to habeus corpus.
As stickybun says, we would do well to stop thinking in terms of class and start thinking about authoritarianism v liberty.

its true purits
the loyal labour foot soldiers who condoned and stuck by their government and fear more than anything a return of the tories, have imho been instrumental in the demise of our civil liberties...
and any labour supporter to me these days is foolish and cant see the wood for the trees really,... oh yeah and a supporter of war criminals...
the party is OVER done and dead
and last stab was by the leader who got them elected..
oh, its all shakespearn innit?

Oh, I'm with you, purits, have been opposed to every single one of this so-called Labour government's attacks on civil liberties etc. etc. What I mean is that not only are all these things wrong in themselves, but the architects of 'New' Labour are pissing all over the memory of the people who built the sodding party in the first place. Terrible betrayal of everything Labour ever stood for.

My godmother says 'Blairs may come and Blairs may go but it was my party long before he turned up and it will be my party again'. But I think she's a blind optimist.