Government to blame parents for teenage drinking . fgs. who has some better ideas?

[SenoraPostrophe]

not strictly news I guess, but now they're talking about legislation.

here's the story

police to get "tough" powers to "disperse" people (which is a bit scary isn't it?), and asbos to be given to parents of drunken teens (presumably to encourage them to tie teens up and not let them out of the house). Jack Straw says behaviour could be changed, in the way that football fans' behaviour had been changed. (a ridiculous assertion. as if the small minority of fans who were/are violent are in any way similar to the clear majority of teens who get bladdered sometimes)

I am quite angry about these proposals, some of which have a ring of the police state about them.

I have 3 questions:

1. is binge drinking actually a problem, or is the problem really the excessive number of late bars in town centres (with the really loud music because if you talk less you drink more)?
2. do teenagers now drink more than we did?
3. what, if anything should the government be doing about it? (I have some ideas - I'll post them in a minute)

so when are teenagers supposed to start taking responsibilty for their own actions,rather than thinking they can do what they want as it's not them who will be punished?

groups of teens used to hang around drinking thunderbirds and pink lady when i was that age,its not a new thing,i just think they are drinking more,either that or stronger stuff.

I know of a case at a piss up held by some teenagers where some of the girls were so pissed that they collapsed on the floors, the boys then engaged in pissing and masturbating all over them.

A favourite game I know of round here for teenagers is to play musical dicks, a version of musical chairs.

i agree with taking the teens home to the parents and telling them what they have been upto but i dont think that it is necessary to punish the parents.

giving teens more to do and discounts on what is available for them to do would help. and also agree giving youth groups more moeny would help. when we were being taken abseiling, swimming, dry skiing. iceskating etc. we were drinking and we certainly would never have missed these activities to go drinking. although the drinking normally occurs on a weekend when youth groups are normally shut so maybe open them weekends too?

twinset - there have always been people who don't value education (it used to be one of the biggest distinctions between working and middle classes other than job). I don't agree that anything has changed there.

rates of illiteracy among parents are still higher than they should be but are lower than in the 70s

families have fewer children now than they used to. benefits are worth less (compared to wages) than they were in the 70s

there are more single parent families, but that isn't necessarily a problem. My mum brought the 5 of us up just fine (we did have contact with dad, but then so do most children now)

and I say again: the biggest difference between now and 20/ 30 years ago is attitude. children are more open about drinking now, and I think the best response is to legitimise it for 16 (maybe 14) yr olds and above, and increase offlicense prices by taxing more (let's price 13 yr olds out of oblivion)

But I really don't know about this crowd dispersal thing. I think people see teenagers as more threatening than they are.

it was my parents that stopped me from drinking hauled my ass out of the disco knowing I had thieves gin from them.
they kept an eye on me allowing me to develop responsibly.
forever for that I thank them it made the difference and it will guide me as I parent mine. Ds1 is 14 and he will not ever go out and get pissed in public as an undeage boy.
he will be allowed certain things in certain places.

If parents are fucking up on such a huge scale that society of youth is going properly tits up, then parents wash their hands of them...
what is the answer...
I grew up on nz where booze was not sold in premises that were not licensed. Drinking age was 20.
availability was v low.
reckon it helped tbh I'm shocked by how easy it is to buy booze 24/7 in the uk
Fgs petrol stations stock it!!!!

"If parents are fucking up on such a huge scale that society of youth is going properly tits up, then parents wash their hands of them..."

they're not though.

also booze is not sold in premises that aren't licensed in the uk either. those garages have a license (but a license is easier to get than it used to be)

ime, teenagers are drinking more/stronger stuff, and starting younger.

When I was that age (a long time ago, admittedly) in my area the thrill was getting served in the pub, not getting out of your tree on whatever. We rarely drank in the street (it happened - but it would be a four pack amongst everyone, rather than a four pack each).

We may have been drinking, but our parents didn't know, whereas these days some parents think nothing of going and buying the alcohol for them.

Don't know how widespread this is across the country, but it certainly happens locally.

i think dont give a shit parents are a big problem.especially those who dont care what their kids are upto/doing untill said kid goes home and tells mummy that another adult(be it a teacher,police officer,another parent)has had a go at them,then mummy and/or daddy goes looking for a fight/compensation.

I realize it?s not politically correct to say this, but I think a large part of the problem is that children have too many rights, and as such they have too little respect for authority because they feel they should be equal. Well they?re not, they?re children, and we are adults. And until they learn to behave as adults they should not be treated equally to adults.

Teens may have been drinking 20 years ago but if they were discovered by an adult they would run home pretty sharpish. Now they have no respect, and if they?re confronted by an adult they?re probably more likely to hit back, and groups of teens are very intimidating, far more so than when I was groing up, I certainly wouldn?t confront a group of drunk teens now for fear of being stabbed/beaten up/killed even.

I grew up in the community I teach in, I come from a typical family that send their children to my school. I lived on one of the worst roads in the area and saw most of what goes on, IMO it is worse now and parents care less.

SP-Many working class families value education, I see lots of them every day.
I don't think that drinking is the actual problem, more a symptom of a larger one, as expat and custardo have said.
Why issue ASBO's etc. if no one is dealing witrh the real problems.
Isn't everyone a product of society after all?

tipping malcontent and restless youth onto the street when you know what they'll do is washing your hands of parenting somewhat.
when I said licensed premises, I meant public house with bottle store open 10-2 then 6pm til 11pm. Cannily missing school kids... Plus big bottlestores, drive through style no id no service even if you were 70! And drivers license passport no student cards no sir.
Getting hold of plonk took some doing....

I think it has changed even in the last 10 yrs or so since I was a teenager.

I didn't get drunk until I was 18 although I was allowed a glass of wine with Sunday lunch every so often since about 14 or 15. I was never that bothered with drinking & I think it was perhaps because I didn't see it as being a forbidden thing?

Hearing tales from friends they seemed to go off out of the way & drink together rather than in the street. Not saying this is better, because they were still drinking too much, but it sounds like it was a lot friendlier & without the trouble.

Regarding the 3 questions, not too sure to be honest!

I think that people would binge drink whether there were lots of bars or not. We used to go out quite often & drink hardly anything & just dance & people watch etc. It is cheaper to buy it in the supermarket & drink before you go out (or on the way).

I think bars should offer reasonably priced soft drinks. In many cases it is better value to buy an alcoholic drink which is silly, especially as you can get a bottle of lemonade for 30p in the supermarket!

It is interesting how other European countries don't seem to have this problem.

Just make it more expensive - alcohol is ridiculously cheap. I know a cheap bottle of wine was £2.00 in Sainsburys when I was a student in 1985 - it's ridiculous that it's barely more than that now. Personally think everyone is depressed due to control freak government, working long hours and depressing news constantly telling us that if Al-Quaeda don't get us something else will. Teenagers are just less inhibited about letting their feelings out. All govt' initiatives seem to focus on telling people they shouldn't drink because it's bad for them - relatively little space seems to be given to wondering why so many people seem to want to get so wrecked so often in the first place. It's really sad - there are going to be so many ill young people out there in a few years time. I really think that restricting purchasing is the only way .

Teenagers definitely drink much stronger drinks than when we (I mean, me, very old) were young. They drink bottles of vodka whereas we were drinking beer or cider. Vodka is the norm now. It is cheap and accessible. I know parents who buy their children (well 16yr olds) vodka to drink before they go to 'non drinking' events/parties. Some parents seem to revel in their children being the archetypal 'Kevin the Teenager' presumably because they were never allowed to be...they almost encourage it, the moment they turn 13. I think it is a throwback to when they weren't allowed to be a 'teenager' and prob worked v hard and did all the right things, usually the nice middle class lot. Those of you without teenagers would be surprised if you met the parents of the hideous hoodie type on the street, they are usually the children of the local doctor/lawyer!!!

stickybunamkes a good point about everyone being depressed cos of the government and the news.its no wonder everyone wants to get pissed.

i also blame the availability of cheap cocaine fueling the need to drink more and more.

The thing that scares me most is the dispersal powers tbh. Is being a teenager and hanging out with your friends actually a crime now? Gawd, no wonder we're alienating our children as a society.

Just finished reading Little Brother by Corey Doctorow - it's a novel set in the near future of Orwellian surveillance after a terrorist act and how the teens are treated as a result. Some of the scariest scenes are the crowd dispersal scenes.

Makes shocking reading especially when you realise that so much of the premises of the novel are in place right now and we've just let basic freedoms be gradually chipped away without even a whimper.

When I was at college (1981!), a bottle of wine between two of us was a treat weekly. We might have managed a Bailey's once or twice a week, poured from a bottle in our rooms (I shared a set of rooms with another girl). But that was it, by and large. A meal out was a termly treat. Even so, I had an overdraft when I left to start work.

Now, when I walk through the same area of town, every other shop is a bar - they have grown up around the university halls of residence, where before there where factories and ironmongers. And the bars are always full till late, not just on fridays and Saturdays.

Of course teenagers are drinking more. But how the heck do they afford it? I think the price of alcohol must have come down a lot in real terms.

(And I strongly believe half the teenage "problems" in society is because we treat them like criminals before they even start - no wonder some turn around and say "fuck you" and live up to the rep)

1. Yes binge drinking is a problem, it is dangerous and unhealthy. But even when I was a teen it was a necessary rite of passage to binge every weekend.
2. Not sure about that - they might just admit it more and be more blatant about it.
3. Agree re. taxing beer in pubs less, and booze from supermarkets etc. more. Also public information campaigns that somehow portray drunk teens as losers. Agree also re making mild beers available from cafes and icecream parlours.

"
By wannaBe on Tue 03-Jun-08 21:15:02
I realize it?s not politically correct to say this, but I think a large part of the problem is that children have too many rights, and as such they have too little respect for authority because they feel they should be equal. Well they?re not, they?re children, and we are adults. And until they learn to behave as adults they should not be treated equally to adults."

I agree with this and I think that might be a lot of the reason they seem so threatening.

I can say the culture has changed in the last 5 years. When i was 16 we would go to the river on a friday night, share a few cans or a bottle of white lightening. We did nothing life threatening, illegal (other than drinking under age), we weren't violent and we had a good time. We couldn't get ridiculouly drunk as we had to be in by 10, all of us.

Now my sister is 14 and she goes every friday with her friends and they get alcohol from all over the place. I brought it them once under the pretence they were having a party and would drink it there with parentl supervision (i know, stupid and naive but i am never doing it again). They lie to parents about whose house they are staying at so they can all get drunk. One of her friends was picked up by the police and taken home in an ambulance because she was so drunk. Her parents grounded her for a week and stopped her going out in the one town she got drunk in

My mum rang up all the other parents and said to them why dont we all agree on a set of rules for them all, ie they are all in by 10, they stay at home every friday, give them a fiver and we will tke them all to the cinema, bowling etc. The other mothers agreed, but now they are all back to going out and drinking because its the easy option on a friday night.

This is becoming rather long winded but there are so many reason why teens drink any how much they drink. Whoever said vodka is now the drink of choice is so right, not sure how we can stop this though, raising alcohol taxes hits those who are legally drinking, not just the underage.

I think there does need to be more moral and social awareness and respect. Teens doin't care where they grow up now as odds are they wont live there when they are older. I'm not convinced its all the parents either. I know you become more relaxed with each child nd i was pfb, but we have had a similar upbringing yet she feels the need to drink every friday night. Though afaik she has done no damage or is violent, its more of the howing off aspect of drinking. plus its exciting to do when you're not supposed to.

I can say the culture has changed in the last 5 years. When i was 16 we would go to the river on a friday night, share a few cans or a bottle of white lightening. We did nothing life threatening, illegal (other than drinking under age), we weren't violent and we had a good time. We couldn't get ridiculouly drunk as we had to be in by 10, all of us.

Now my sister is 14 and she goes every friday with her friends and they get alcohol from all over the place. I brought it them once under the pretence they were having a party and would drink it there with parentl supervision (i know, stupid and naive but i am never doing it again). They lie to parents about whose house they are staying at so they can all get drunk. One of her friends was picked up by the police and taken home in an ambulance because she was so drunk. Her parents grounded her for a week and stopped her going out in the one town she got drunk in

My mum rang up all the other parents and said to them why dont we all agree on a set of rules for them all, ie they are all in by 10, they stay at home every friday, give them a fiver and we will tke them all to the cinema, bowling etc. The other mothers agreed, but now they are all back to going out and drinking because its the easy option on a friday night.

This is becoming rather long winded but there are so many reason why teens drink any how much they drink. Whoever said vodka is now the drink of choice is so right, not sure how we can stop this though, raising alcohol taxes hits those who are legally drinking, not just the underage.

I think there does need to be more moral and social awareness and respect. Teens doin't care where they grow up now as odds are they wont live there when they are older. I'm not convinced its all the parents either. I know you become more relaxed with each child nd i was pfb, but we have had a similar upbringing yet she feels the need to drink every friday night. Though afaik she has done no damage or is violent, its more of the howing off aspect of drinking. plus its exciting to do when you're not supposed to.