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The driver in the Wimbledon school accident won't be charged?

1000 replies

RiverF · 27/06/2024 06:23

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

It sounds like a unavoidable and unforeseeable medical incident led to the tragedy, but the families wanted justice.

I can't begin to imagine their pain, but this is the right decision?

School photo images of Nuria Sajjad, left, and Selena Lau - Nuria has glasses and her long dark hair in bunches; Selena is smiling at the camera and has part of her shoulder-length dark hair in a plait

Wimbledon school crash: Woman faces no charges over girls' deaths

Nuria Sajjad and Selena Lau were hit by a Land Rover after the driver suffered an epileptic seizure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4448xx4keo

OP posts:
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9
Mama81 · 28/06/2024 17:52

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PetuniaT · 28/06/2024 17:54

HcbSS · 27/06/2024 06:25

They want ‘justice’ but there is no justice to be had as there was no crime or premeditation. Literally nobody wanted this to happen.
What they actually want is a way to channel their pain, but there is no way. Only time will ease it. Throwing someone in jail for having an epileptic seizure would resolve nothing (and would make any decent person feel like a dick for wanting it).

A perfect response!

soupfiend · 28/06/2024 17:55

ButterCrackers · 28/06/2024 16:50

Where else should it be heard? The families aren’t satisfied so more should be done. I see that you and the other pretend lawyers think that the families should just move along. It was the same types of posts for the Nottingham families.

Where would 'what' be heard?

There isnt a case to be heard. Thats what court is for, for the prosecution to present a case where it believes a crime has been committed. It presents evidence to the court.

Please tell me you will never sit on a jury. Please tell me you wont exercise your right to vote

What is that Winston Churchill quote that people say is made up? Well it applies to you.

TobaccoFlower · 28/06/2024 17:56

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No one is denying that the parents are suffering terribly. What evidence do you have that she did it on purpose though?

masterblaster · 28/06/2024 17:58

milhelpplease · 27/06/2024 06:30

There's some further detail here www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/26/wimbledon-school-crash-driver-will-not-face-prosecution-says-cps

As @RiverF says the driver didn't have diagnosed epilepsy at the time and a clear medical record so they would have no reason to believe they could not or should not drive.

It is all very very sad but based on these articles it is an utterly tragic accident which could not have been predicted or prevented.

There but for the grace of God go you or I.

ButterCrackers · 28/06/2024 17:59

Mirabai · 28/06/2024 17:39

In the media. That’s where most people complain these days.

What happened to those 2 girls was a terrible tragedy but court does not exist for people angry that a crime has not been committed as it would make them feel better.

i read the article in The Guardian (I posted it below). The lawyers and families are not satisfied. I am not a lawyer but I hear the families. The driver had a fit and it was an accident but the families need a fuller investigation as I understand. I feel that for them. There must be a way to achieve this. It’s sad for the driver but they were behind the wheel. The fit put them out of control of their car. The families need more from the process. The Nottingham families have turned to the media. It’s all difficult but I would never say move along like other posters here. Perhaps a new procedure could be established- I am not legal so before the Judge Flounce pretenders pounce on this I’m just putting it forward as a broad idea. Some way for the families to be heard.. They’ll be an inquiry so I hope answers and support are there.

soupfiend · 28/06/2024 17:59

busymomtoone · 28/06/2024 17:44

So many questions - I didn’t know you could develop epilepsy so late in life , or indeed how it can be proved that it is down to this and that the woman does definitely have epilepsy and will ( presumably?) never be allowed to drive again. If it was down to a tragic set of really rare occurrences then my heart breaks for her as well as the families as she must be haunted by it. However I also hope it’s not down to clever lawyering up and ££ being thrown at the case - like others I’m confused why it’s taken so long to decide “ no case to answer” rather than it awaiting a court decision.

A court decision

A court decision?

I think another poster mentioned having a handy wall to bang their head against - can I join in?

I think this is one of the worst worst threads I have EVER read on this godforsaken site, and there is lots and lots of competition.

Youdontevengohere · 28/06/2024 18:00

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1 year. At least get the basics right if you’re going to accuse someone of murder.

FTMaz · 28/06/2024 18:01

There is no justice to be had. The woman didn’t know she had epilepsy and it was her first seizure. I’m sure the grief stricken parents would think like the rest of us but their judgment is understandably clouded by the loss of their children.

spikeandbuffy · 28/06/2024 18:02

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So you think she deliberately drove into the school despite having children of her own, and aimed for 2 children because they're not white Confused
And she knew they would be at that particular spot, and that the others that got hit would just be injured and not killed
And she did this because....

Obviously the police won't have taken her electronic devices, phone, investigated her financials, background, family, friends, not that taking a long time at all

My first seizure was after trapping a finger in a door, i had another on my birthday in the hairdressers getting ready for a birthday party
They don't come at convenient times
I've seen someone having a seizure behind the wheel of the car and his food was slammed on the accelerator. Luckily he was at traffic lights with the handbrake on

soupfiend · 28/06/2024 18:04

I dont blame the families for being misguided, they within stages of grief, where they are angry and bargaining

They do need to move along that process, however you want to term that.

They may well want to put their anger into campaigns for better road safety, car safety, driving bans around schools/speed restrictions, type of car restrictions or any number of things which they could get behind to give them a focus.

People who are on this thread and on god knows what other social media spouting off and showing their ignorance are incredibly unhelpful for that process.

Scruffily · 28/06/2024 18:04

ButterCrackers · 28/06/2024 16:50

Where else should it be heard? The families aren’t satisfied so more should be done. I see that you and the other pretend lawyers think that the families should just move along. It was the same types of posts for the Nottingham families.

Why does it have to be heard just because the families are dissatisfied? What exactly do you say should be heard? A homicide charge for which there is no basis?

Why isn't the inquest enough?

masterblaster · 28/06/2024 18:06

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You realise that epilepsy is diagnosable, right? The doctors don’t just make it up.

Safewater · 28/06/2024 18:08

busymomtoone · 28/06/2024 17:44

So many questions - I didn’t know you could develop epilepsy so late in life , or indeed how it can be proved that it is down to this and that the woman does definitely have epilepsy and will ( presumably?) never be allowed to drive again. If it was down to a tragic set of really rare occurrences then my heart breaks for her as well as the families as she must be haunted by it. However I also hope it’s not down to clever lawyering up and ££ being thrown at the case - like others I’m confused why it’s taken so long to decide “ no case to answer” rather than it awaiting a court decision.

Perhaps try reading the thread. Many people have taken the time to write about their experiences with epilepsy.
Yes, it can happen to anyone - it could even be you tomorrow or the day after. 1 in 25 people will suffer a seizure in their lifetime. Everyday 80 people of any age are diagnosed.
Yes, people with epilepsy can drive once they have been stable for 12 months.

Scruffily · 28/06/2024 18:10

@hellofellow - are you a UK lawyer? I ask because of the way you spell "offence". That might explain how your comments don't really work with English law.

Don't bother with the somewhat patronising assumption that I'm working from Google. Lawyer here, almost certainly with more experience than you.

Safewater · 28/06/2024 18:11

soupfiend · 28/06/2024 17:59

A court decision

A court decision?

I think another poster mentioned having a handy wall to bang their head against - can I join in?

I think this is one of the worst worst threads I have EVER read on this godforsaken site, and there is lots and lots of competition.

I keep coming back to this thread, but really need to step away. I'm pretty much done with MN at this point.

SadOrWickedFairy · 28/06/2024 18:16

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Seriously?

Pathetic that people believe this level of bollocks conspiracy theory as gospel.

Youdontevengohere · 28/06/2024 18:17

busymomtoone · 28/06/2024 17:44

So many questions - I didn’t know you could develop epilepsy so late in life , or indeed how it can be proved that it is down to this and that the woman does definitely have epilepsy and will ( presumably?) never be allowed to drive again. If it was down to a tragic set of really rare occurrences then my heart breaks for her as well as the families as she must be haunted by it. However I also hope it’s not down to clever lawyering up and ££ being thrown at the case - like others I’m confused why it’s taken so long to decide “ no case to answer” rather than it awaiting a court decision.

They couldn’t ‘await a court decision’ because it hasn’t been to court. It hasn’t been to court because the CPS, who prosecute cases in court, have made the decision after reviewing all the expert evidence that no crime has been committed. No crime = no court case = no court decision to await (or otherwise).

Scruffily · 28/06/2024 18:18

hellofellow · 28/06/2024 17:46

No, your first paragraph is very, very confused! That's not how the law works at all.

"if the necessary elements are first met then you will be guilty of the offence, because basically the defences operate to take away or reduce those elements." -> No, this is just word salad on your end. It doesn't work like that. Many defenses don't invalidate the necessary elements, but concern a separate aspect of law. That's why defenses are viewed as distinct from the necessary elements in the first place.

Anyway, about "the offence" vs "any offence"... I don't know what you're trying to say really but yes, of course defences (whether partial or complete) are specific to the charge being brought. They're not just raised in the abstract for fun.

Re CPS not at all – assessment of probability of conviction is not at all a legal test (in case law many of the most influential precedents were the most unexpected). Also public interest factors in very strongly. In general they're known not to be too concerned about the finer points of law.

Edited

Honestly, your writing is incredibly confused, and again I don't think you are bothering to try to understand the points being made. I'm not going to derail the thread further and bore everyone indefinitely with this but, just by way of one example, if you really believe that the CPS don't take legal tests into account (along with a number of other factors) when assessing the probability of conviction and making decisions whether to prosecute, you are seriously mistaken.

SocoBateVira · 28/06/2024 18:18

ButterCrackers · 28/06/2024 17:59

i read the article in The Guardian (I posted it below). The lawyers and families are not satisfied. I am not a lawyer but I hear the families. The driver had a fit and it was an accident but the families need a fuller investigation as I understand. I feel that for them. There must be a way to achieve this. It’s sad for the driver but they were behind the wheel. The fit put them out of control of their car. The families need more from the process. The Nottingham families have turned to the media. It’s all difficult but I would never say move along like other posters here. Perhaps a new procedure could be established- I am not legal so before the Judge Flounce pretenders pounce on this I’m just putting it forward as a broad idea. Some way for the families to be heard.. They’ll be an inquiry so I hope answers and support are there.

There's no 'must'. People wanting something doesn't wish it into existence. Even when them wanting it is totally understandable.

Mainoo72 · 28/06/2024 18:19

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You’re being ridiculous. There are some incredibly ignorant posts on this thread.

SocoBateVira · 28/06/2024 18:20

Mainoo72 · 28/06/2024 18:19

You’re being ridiculous. There are some incredibly ignorant posts on this thread.

The two years claim is my favourite. The accident happened on 6th July 2023...

Dontcallmescarface · 28/06/2024 18:24

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Well done....of all the batshit responses on this thread yours is the most batshit one. have a 🏅

NigelHarmansNewWife · 28/06/2024 18:26

Well the flog 'em and hang 'em brigade are out in force on this thread.

This is tragic accident; nothing more, nothing less. The woman whose out of control car killed the two children has to live with this for the rest of her life. The parents of the two girls have to live with this for the rest of their lives. Her car was out of control because she had a seizure, something she could do nothing about. It is absolutely right that the CPS hasn't pursued the case against her because she is not culpable.

You cannot legislate for every eventuality. Yes, there are tragic cases such as these every now and then and it is truly tragic. It's not about race or wealth or anything else, it's a human tragedy and no one is served by prosecuting the case against this woman. Certainly not society or justice.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 28/06/2024 18:29

The families should be consulted and their opinion taken

Sooo.. are we going to do this for every accident and court case? someone found not to be at fault but families should be consulted and their opinion taken? the accused' paraded in court even when it's been determined they're either not guilty or there was no case to answer in the first place, just to satisfy the mob's thirst for vengeance?

To quote another poster There are literally no words to describe the stupidity of that statement.

I've come to the conclusion that some posters are so ignorant that they can't actually realise how ignorant they are

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