Morgan Tsvangirai

[PeggySioux]

I am quite ashamed of how little I understand about the current political situation in Zimbabwe.

Are people saying that Morgan Tsvangirai is likely to be good for Zimbabwe?

Mandela still plays a huge part in the stability of the country, despite the fact he is no longer in power. But the upcoming president (sorry have forgotten his name) is not a nice character by all accounts, (well he's already up on corruption charges and he's not even in power yet!) and there's a lot of speculation about how things will be once he is in power and Mandela has gone.

Also there's a lot happening in SA that isn't reported outside the country. White farmers are routinely being murdered, my friend's dh was shot in cold blood purely because he was white, there isn't a recognized land reform yet bu it's certainly on the cards.

I take it people have forgotten Gukurahundi if they think that the first 20yrs were entirely good???

Bundle - no, I don't.

I think anyone is an improvement on Mugabe. But there are no happy solutions in politics. I lived there as a child and have relatives who are white farmers still in Zim and they have lost their five farms. And I think, frankly, they deserved it. They lived a life of unmitigated luxury (BMWs imported from Germany, swimming pools, servants, tennis court, town house) while their farm workers didn't even have toilets. They never trained an African person to be a farm manager, not even an assitant. As a child I could hear my uncle screaming at the workers from half a mile away and although I didn't really question it, I remember feeling that it was very wrong to be so angry with people who were working for you. Both him and his wife were lovely people, but only if you were white. This was really bought home to me when dp (who is a black Brit) and I visited Zim in 2000. The way they behaved was appalling.

I was just saying that I didn't think I could trust Tsvangari. I HOPE I am wrong. Zimbabwe needs something good.

I've just watched the news and I have to say I have a very uneasy feeling about what's going on there at the moment.

Mugabi has gone so quiet, too quiet. He hasn't been seen in public since the election. why? Normally he is totally defiant and refuses to be beaten and now he seems to have disappeared off the radar.

It's not a comfortable feeling.

scarlet, strange that you didn't post all of that straight off, instead of judging someone by their apperance..

WannaBe - totally agree - it is very strange and very out of character.

Everyone judges everyone else on appearance on some level, Bundle. It is honest of Scarlet to admit it.

Although it was not the only thing that I was judging, I do remember thinking Tony Blair had a smarmy smile and I voted for him anyway as well, Scarlet.

As for Zimbabwe I certainly hope that anything would be better than Mugabe - it is hard to imagine what might be worse. Still, when there has been so much corruption and violence it is hard not to be skeptical and cautious about any potential leader. Will it be more of the same? Will the change of government create civil unrest and if it does, how will that be dealt with, etc?

I work with some wonderful Zimbabwean women, they were so emotional about the elctions over the weekend.

They said that Zimbabwe was once such a beautiful, prosperous country. They long to go back to their families if Mugabe loses this election.

I disagree with you FAQ.

The situation in Zimbabwe is completely out of control and absolutely dire. I don't think most Europeans can imagine the abject poverty that the majority of Zimbabweans, make that Southern Africans, live in.

African politics is not something to which logic can be applied. There are no standards, there is no accountability or transparency. This is a fact of life and never likely to change - doesn't matter who is in power.

Having said that degrees of improvement in Zimbabwe, and that's what Morgan Tsvangirai will bring, will improve the lives of the average person on the street, so that can be no bad thing.

Sadly, I don't have a very positive outlook on the future for Southern Africa. The reality of living here vs. reading the news is sad and worrying at best and utterly overwhelming at worst.

Poverty, HIV/AIDS, Killer TB, Violent crime, Corruption. The list goes on and on.

IMO, if the rest of the world allows Robert Mugabe to stay in power - then it will be a total tragedy for this region! I pray that things will change.

dejags - I am talking from the accounts of people I know that are still living there NOW, and quite a lot of them too (as well as several Zimbabweans I know who are now living in the UK).

And I myself experienced it for a couple of years after the Black Friday Crash (which occured only a couple of months after I moved out there) and was almost certainly the start of the economic crisis.

I'm surprised that you say Southern Africans, as I assume you're including Botswana in there, which by most accounts is doing remarkably well compared to most other African countries.

Keep watching the news, things still in stasis. Do you think there will be riots? Or are the people too tired and debilitated?

Thanks Bluebutterfly x

By Southern Africa I am referring to Mozambique, South Africa, Zimbabwe and to a lesser degree Namibia, Angola and Botswana.

I find it remarkable that anybody says that life is ok in Zimbabwe. People have to queue (sometimes for hours) to get cash from cashpoints, most basic supplies are not available in supermarkets and inflation is just totally out of control. Not to mention the corrupt government, crime, police brutality and on and on.

The huge influx of illegal aliens from Zimbabwe and Mozambique into South Africa tells it's very own tale. People - in their thousands risk their lives to get out of Zim and Mozambique - quite literally braving incredible obstacles.

Considering that 100s of thousands of skilled people are leaving or applying to leave South Africa, it's incredible to think that people from our neighbouring states are desparate to get in.

It's rumoured that there are 500 000 South Africans in the process of applying for visas for Australia and NZ alone. Indeed, we are leaving in 8 weeks time to start again in Oz.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one FAQ.

have to agree with dejags - current life expentancy for a zim woman is 34. the illegal immigrants pouring into SA are also bringing with them more violence, crime etc and Zuma will not be helping the situation at all bearing in mind he is an absolute lunatic.

sorry but where the f*ck did I say that life was "ok" for people in Zimbabwe?????

As I said I have direct contact with people still living their now, lived there for a couple of years myself at the start of the current troubles, and know several Zimbabweans who have left in recent years/months.

Wow FAQ. Do you usually swear when somebody disagrees with you.

FAQ - Just to follow that up - your posts seemed almost positive about Zim i.e. slightly underplaying the desparate situation there.

Sorry if I misunderstood

I didn't swear because you disagreed with me.

Seen as though until 3 weeks ago I was making regular deposits for 5 people in Zimbabwe just to buy basic provisions, I think I have a pretty good idea how desperate things are