China and Tibet.What Do People Think re Olympics?

[DloeufyDoo]

That's it.Bearing in mind the situation in Tibet,do people think that the Olympic Games should be boycotted?

But that's my point about the Olympics being a unique opportunity - it's not about economics, it's about 'face' and the eyes of the world being on China. I agree that we'll never get Western governments to mount a trade war on China, although individuals can give it a go.

I'm not sure about this 'high horse' business. Of course Guantanamo is disgusting, but I don't think it equates to the extraordinary abuses of human rights that the Chinese have been perpetrating for decades. And as bad as the situation in Iraq is (and I do acknowledge that terrible massacres have been carried out by coalition troops), to my mind there's an important difference between holding democratic elections too early in a country that arguably isn't ready for them (Iraq), and systematically imprisoning and torturing/killing anyone who has the temerity to campaign for democratic or liberal freedoms (China).

let china have it, if they want to be part of world economics they have to take the good with the bad, i think the majority of chinese are nice interesting people

i get your point about face PW and wish personally the eyes of the world not watch it

we can at individual level i guess
but i do think international sport is very much tied up with politics and politically it is too dodgy to embarass chinese like this, it wont happen

if we werent gonna challenge china on the way they operate before we did business with them then unlikely we will when they hold the games

the situation internally in china cannot be compared to iraq (though i would say holding early elections was the least of the problems we inflicted on them..)
but we have caused death and destruction for 5 years in the name of freedom and continue to hold people for years with no due process of law in torturous camps..
what is so different on that level?

london olympics should be boycotted on basis of logo alone..

"US and UK troops have done some awful things in Iraq, and the war itself was/is illegal, but to say that there is moral equivalence between these governments and the Chinese government is preposterous, IMO."

Errr, I said no such thing. I equated one illegal, globally condemned, blood-splattered invasion of an independent country with another illegal, globally condemned, blood-splattered invasion of an independent country.

I think it's a little naive to think that the Olympic movement has any human rights remit. Juan Antonio Samaranch, Franco's sidekick, was head of the IOC, so let's not pretend that the IOC gives a flying toss about human rights.

A boycott would be justified imo but will never happen because China has such a stranglehold on the global economy and no one country will risk upsetting the Chinese.

When the US and other western countries boycotted the 1980 Moscow games because of the invasion of Afghanistan (oh, the irony!) the worst the Soviet bloc could do was do boycott the Los Angeles games four years later.

quite taipo
when no harm to ecomony and interests they did this token stuff
& yes the irony was not lost re afghanistan

ninedragons..didnt know that! - spanish head of ioc..good greif..

recently I read few of Ma Jian books, very interesting personal perspective on internal ways in china
also wives of the east wind factory by another author..

supremely repressive on all levels u
nlikely to change either
however many chances given internationally or internally as it wont be supported by other countries where it hurts and when it really counts..
we as the west in effect condoned the treatment of burmese monks recently too
and the continued chinese funding of sudanese nightmare

but as we, the west, continue to treat people to rendition, detentions, invade sovereign states and create hell on earth
i am suspect of our real motives..
its not to spread democracy and freedom dont make me laugh
its to continue imperialist expansion and economy..
i am given no hope to believe there is any political intention to up hold human rights, here in the west or there under repressive regime, anywhere infact..

its lip service sadly..
and sometimes these days not even that

I think there are two arguments going on on this thread: an analysis of how far Western governments are likely to do anything (agreed that the chances are zero to infinitesimal), and a different argument that is to do with whether posters would like their governments to do something, and whether a boycott would be a useful tool in a parallel universe in which Western governments had located their bollocks and were prepared to take some action WRT China.

I can understand the parallels you are drawing with Iraq, but I just don't think that the fuck-up in Iraq means that coaltion governments aren't permitted to take a stand on anything else. As far as the moral difference goes in terms of rendition and so on, I'd say that Chinese society is built on the repression of human rights, whereas these (admittedly egregious) breaches of human rights are off-shoots of US/UK government actions. I can't and won't pretend that we are living in a golden age where individual liberties are concerned, but hell, we can vote. We have freedom of conscience and religion and the press (with some creeping infringements). We can type a search term in Google and know that our government has not filtered the results.

Equally, I don't think that the probity of the admittedly corrupt IOC is terribly relevant. My argument is: this is a unique opportunity to put enormous pressure on China. It's the one chance that other governments have to apply some leverage that actually might make a difference. Once the Olympics are over, we really are down to individuals operating tiny trade boycotts, which is worthwhile but terribly ineffectual unless it happens on a massive scale.

There was an article a while ago on the chinese gymnastics team.......

That article on it's own made me want to boycott the olympics.

Those little girls go through hell to bring "pride" to their country.

Totally with ninedragons on this one.

Agree they should not have been awarded the privilege of hosting as their economy does not need the boost, only their ego/PR machine.

But then again as ninedragons said easy explanation: Samaranch must have received a handsome paycheck and doesn't the whole world want to keep the cheap goods flowing?

It's totally unfair to expect a young athlete whose been training hard for 4 year to boycott to ease our conscience.

Totally agree policywonk.

i take your points pw
but just have no faith in western governments to do the right thing in this case

i would like to be more optimistic about them doing some thing like this but i cant see it

i am only trying to point out that their (west) track record concerning human rights is not encouraging and as they begin to id, label and track us all doesnt fill me with hope of it getting better either

yes, its not anything on the scale of repression in chinese society, but its on a downward slide here and with 'war on terror' still raging it wont get better i fear though it will all be for our own good...wtf..

am not holding my breath for boycott by influential nations and will eat my laptop if Uk does boycott this sporting fiasco..

I agree with all of that my dear hairy cheese

It seems to me sometimes that the situation in Iraq has created such self-loathing in the British left that a lot of the people seem to be almost paralysed (not talking about you because I don't know whether this applies to you!)

I don't feel responsible for what's happening in Iraq, because I didn't vote for Blair (or any Labour candidate), and I sure as fuck didn't vote for Bush. So I feel entitled to hold opinions about things like the Chinese record on human rights, and the truly appalling effects of China's foreign policy in Sudan and Burma, without feeling like a hypocrite because my own country isn't whiter-than-white. Do you see what I mean?

yes i do, but that policy is kinda wonky to me

we have the misfortune to live in a country of fuckwits who did ..and then re-voted him in after his war crimes..that i will never forgive them for that..
if you agree with this societys' version of democracy then this is what we get ( i think 30% population returned blair in last election)
and it doesnt look like its going away so abroad it looks like it is us doing this..they are who represent us am afraid

you are right to hold your opinions, and you are interested, christ most folks just dont wanna know
i too feel as strongly as you do about human rights, but also see that what we (ie those elected to say it for us) say about human rights might have more impact if we practiced our preaching..and how else with anything change if its not they that change it

it aint gonna be me and you with a well worded slogan on placard that make them see sense and use power constructively..
though a internet inspired boycott on individual level did occur to me..if the advertisers were not getting the viewing numbers it would have an impact am sure

i do see what you mean and am sure there are many peoples who feel the same, i find alot of lack of awareness of how this country really comes across to people, those sad unfortunates we 'liberate' and leave in hell..
i hang my head in shame to be of this country and it was not done in my name either, but how to they know that?

its democracy and how it has come to mean not much i fear is the real problem

have you ever read paul foot the vote? fascinating educational frustrating topic & fab book well worth it (well am 3/4's way through but thats the feeling so far)..