Does anyone else rather admire the French?

[squashyhat]

They're not taking the proposed pension changes lying down are they? France riots

Protesting yes, wanton destruction of property and harming others, no. Wasn't it the French who burnt lorries carrying live British sheep to protest against lamb imports?

Their retirement age is unsustainable if they want to continue with high social security payments. 60 year olds are usually much more healthy than 50 years ago.

Retiring at 64 doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Especially as people are usually healthy for longer now.

“Protests have always been used to fight for just causes from anything to demanding the vote for women to fighting racism.”

Indeed. Wanting to retire at 62 hardly compares as a “just cause” though.

Indeed. Wanting to retire at 62 hardly compares as a “just cause” though.

There's nuance though.

You need to make full contributions of 42 years to get the full state pension before 67. You only get the full state pension at 67. There isn't really the same private pension schemes we have here.

mmalinky · Today 08:58Indeed. Wanting to retire at 62 hardly compares as a “just cause” though.

There's nuance though.

You need to make full contributions of 42 years to get the full state pension before 67. You only get the full state pension at 67. There isn't really the same private pension schemes we have here”

Thanks, I didn’t know that. Why is it headlined that the protests are against retirement age being raised from 62 to 64?

As far as my understanding from the French people I know is that the anger is how Macron pushed the reform through. Many see it as a democratic threat, in the way he passed it.

headlines don't tend to demonstrate nuance tbf!

One argument is the manual labourers who tend to start work at a younger age & get paid less will be hit harder by the change. There's also the societal contract that the French believe in & some feel is being broken.

Macron forced the change through without a vote as he thought he wouldn't win the vote. plus see him as on the side of the rich.

plus many see

The alternative is to do what the English do, nothing. Then watch pension age reach from 60, to 65, then to 66, and now 67. With further talks of raising the age again

since starting work the goal posts have been moved 3 times and no protests and that’s why the government know they can go again for pension ages

It's 68

here for many

I didn't say I can save £ 1 million because I don't and never had that sort of salary, so don't go jumping to conclusions, thanks very much. I can, however, out as much as I can afford up to £ 40k instead of the cap of £ 4,000 for people who have already accessed their pensions. The situation in the second para of your post describes my situation, the first one doesn't descibe me at all.

I'm in France and I think that the UK headlines are misleading. There are so many nuances to this reform, and the French system is totally different to the UK one.

43 annuities in my profession-teaching (5 years of study to qualify) means retirement at 67 for a full pension unless annuities are validated through working during university years, which would be difficult given the thresholds.

Teaching full time at 67 sounds like a nightmare to me, but if I were to leave teaching I would lose out on the slightly advantageous pension regime for civil servants ...

Macron and his cronies have created a reform which punishes women for taking time off to have children.

He forced it through without a vote using the 49.3.

Wages are low here, prices are spiralling, quality of life has taken a nosedive. But the rich and super rich just keep getting richer...

People are angry and I am too. I have been on strike for a couple of days and have protested (peacefully obvs). The vast vast majority of people protesting are peaceful, but the handful of twats who burn stuff always make the news.

No not really, as a country they haven't worked out that socialism has its limits and the country can't keep spending at this level.

France had the greatest foreign investment in 2019 of any European country and is vital to their economy, a combination of refusal to except the reality and and an inability to curtail a strongly unionised workforce will make them less attractive.

@SagelyNodding

I'm in France and I think that the UK headlines are misleading.

Likewise and I agree.

There are so many nuances to this reform, and the French system is totally different to the UK one.

Also agree.

A lot of the UK MSM coverage of this issue skates over some very important details.

@SagelyNodding exactly.

There are some articles here that explain it in more detail but many just read headlines.

''@Harebrain

Not admiring the French is not a sign of apathy 😂😂😂''

What a fantastic display of critical thinking...

My point was not about not admiring the French being a sign of apathy.

It is about the fact that in the UK people have passively allowed politicians in the past decade to destroy our standards of living and become increasingly corrupt. To the point where politicians think and know they can get away with anything. That's apathy.

Whereas in France politicians still have to pay attention to their electorate because they know full well their actions have consequences.

Did I really need to explain that to you?

Hello Jeremy hunt 😂

Yes for taking stand and having the balls to remind the government we are not robots and they work for the people and the we've had enough of corrupt greedy globalist/government. Too much violence no but in some cases it's pushing people too far and that's scary. This country has become a shit hole , mental health through the roof, trying to destroy quality of family life, corrupt disgusting liars and greedy men running the show. Public services a joke, the roads are so bad I dread driving,mental health has gone through the roof thanks to more pressure from government on children and teachers alike. I could go on and something needs to change here. oh and crime rate 😪

@Blueflag22

Yes for taking stand and having the balls to remind the government we are not robots and they work for the people

Indeed - From Agnes Poirier in yesterday's Guardian:

" This is also, however, forgetting the obvious: the irrepressible revolutionary romanticism of my compatriots, who like to regularly check that they are still the ultimate boss."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/25/we-french-were-born-to-confront-authority-can-macron-withstand-the-onslaught

Well I think we are less emotional and more pragmatic - we can stamp our feet and cry as loud as we want but if there is no sodding money then we can’t have what we want.

Have the strikers and marchers said where the cuts are to be made when people have 25 years of retirement. something is being starved whilst 62 year olds get to put their feet up.

I think now in the U.K. parties don’t get to spout forth about how they will save the NHS/ increase benefits etc without explaining where the money comes from.

@Greenfairydust many aren't sneering at the French, I admire their willingness to stand up and be counted for their beliefs. I draw the line at burning cars and indiscriminate or targeted acts of violence. Apathy and the right wing media are not the only problems. Neither the Left not the Right are fit for purpose at the moment. We can't just tax our way out of this.

The French retirement model is unsustainable. When this was established the majority had at most a 10 year retirement, so retirement age needs to go up with life expectancy

Australia had the right idea, everyone is self funded and employers are legally responsible for their generous contributions.