David Cameron thinks we should tell off other people's children - do you?

[TheDullWitch]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article3308629.ece

Or do you fear getting beaten up?

Sorry Slur, have re-read your post and obviously you are advocating the respectful approach

doesn't mean I'm voting conservative though of course .

Ah twiggy.

See now I've done all those too and I think that's fine.

I was objecting to people calling my dcs cheeky/naughty for something that isn't or for shouting at them if they did something harmless (as in not causing immediate physical danger iyswim)

s'ok sanae [smile

depending on the situation, I do!

if the child is in my care, then yes.

if the child is with me and also their mum is too, and mine were playing up as are theirs, and they all need telling off, then my friend and I share the yelling......I and she/they find that another mum doing the yelling produces better and more instant results.

I even picked up two boys in the playground once (they were wrestling and punching each other to the ground!!), and marched them into the school and handed them over to a teacher before now!!!

Maybe I am unusual, but I nannied before my own children, and also cared for family kiddies too, and I was always assumed to be in charge of discipline, and so I have carried it on into motherhood, but then again, I would back anyone up who felt that MY children needed to be told off.

To be perfectly honest, I get so tired of hearing my own voice telling mine off, that I truly love it if other people take over, plus it proves to my children that I am not alone in being riled by their behaviour, as sometimes I fear that they get deaf to my voice and think that I am too strict.

I think that if we all did take more responsibilty, and other parents let us tell other children off, then we would start having children give adults more respect again, and it wouldn't be so damn terrifying meeting crowds of teens on the streets......if they were being loud and we could tell them to shut up without the fear of being beaten by them and their parents, we would not now have the 'hoodie society' that we now have.

I don't think however that I tell other kiddies off over and above their parents.......luckily so far I, and my closest friends, all have similar approaches to how we wish our children to behave.....and I certainly expect mine to adhere to my friends house rules meaning I expect them to be told off occasionly.

I also make sure that if someone DOES tell my child/ren off, they listen and learn from it.

I think if you go in aggressively on mildly-antisocial behaviour you are likely to get an aggressive response. But there's no harm in requesting in a certain kind of way.

I usually say, "Would you mind moving/not doing..because it's... for e.g. keeping the children awake. Thanks a lot."
A bit of NLP (a nod to another thread ), thanking them for something they are of course just about to do!

oh yeah, I always say please first......

PLEASE will you stop doing that RIGHT NOW

or

PLEASE do not break that toy, it is NOT NICE

and always in my sternest, do not mess with me voice, and the hard stare

Yes!
Why not?
I don't feel intimidated in the slightest.
I strongly believe that a child sense of worth can actually be advanced by my technique
To be reminded that they have much nicer qualities than the ones they are displaying by a stern looking lady seems to work a treat.
I'm sure some parents get pissed off with me but so what!
When I think back to my childhood I know that the people who cared the most about all kids were exactly the type of people who would not consider it out of place to "tell them off" I am all for my children understanding that society takes a dim view of unruly behavior.

I'd be more than glad if another Mother spoke to my child about her bad behavior.
Please do!!!

The dangers of intervention, listed in the article DullWitch supplied with the OP, is interesting, as it is always men who get killed and injured by feral youths.

An amateur guess would be that children who have been left to drift so badly have never had a significant father figure/role model in their lives, so the angry male holds no significance for them. They are there to be taunted and challenged.

In my experience, however, most kids are scared shitless of women .. or more specifically, of angry, affronted women, and they will pay us more heed.

I don't disagree with Cameron at all. And I do take the philosophical view that society serves all its children, whether we are their parents or not.

very true, ime, desi, and i think your analysis of why women get a different response to men is very accurate. I would add that there is a significant amount of residual and unconscious anger at men in general, for not having been available as protectors/models/providers.

Agree Desi & Onebat, as I posted earlier, I wouldn't let my dh go and speak to the 15 teenagers outside a neighbour's home, but I did.

Just confident my harassed mother approach going to achieve more results than my dh, who wouldn't have been confrontational but is 6ft 2, an instant challenge to some teenage boys.

that's really interesting on the men being a challenge to teenage boys.

I recently had a conversation with my brother about his relationship with my Dad when bro was a teenager and then one with my Dad about my Granda when Dad was a teenager.

Both of them told me that there came a time in their teenage lives when they really felt they needed to "take on" their Dad and that they would be able to beat him if it had come to a fight. I was fascinated by this as I had no idea that such a dynamic existed. Certainly I never had sense of wanting to physically challenge my mother (we had other issues )

I guess perhaps for teenage boys without fathers present a physical older male presence might well present an opportunity to test yourself against an older man, but without the love/respect/fear/authority/power of your father.

Yes, I don't think it can be denied that women are more effective for a number of reasons. Some of the reasons are uplifting, and some of the reasons are depressing.

I would add, and I'm sure you'll agree, that an inspirational male would reap far better results. But for many reasons, (not least the constant accusations of paedophilia), men are reluctant to step into the role of the society father figure.

And I think your insight is spot on, onebat. Young groups of men have an unconscious admiration for a respectable father figure who comes out to do battle ... unfortunately, the admiration converts to rage, envy and resentment that no one ever came to fight their corner. It is sheer, unadulterated rage.

And I've done that too, Heated. On many occasions, I've gone out and not dh. It isn't a matter of courage v cowardice. It's plain common sense.

That's an interesting post, skidoodle, because it encompasses all men and boys, and not just the feral gangs that we hear about and (unfortunately) also experience.

I once had a boyfriend in my early twenties. God, but I loved that little shit, and I've no idea why. He was a county rugby player and the kind of guy who didn't give a shit what people thought about him.

Or so I thought.

Anyway, when he was 22, he joined the Navy. I was baffled by his decision, because it didn't quite fit with the personality I thought I knew.

I asked him how long he intended to stay in the Navy. When pressed, and with quite a bit of anger, he eventually conceded that he would stay in the Navy for as long as it took for him to outrank his father, who had also joined the Navy at 22.

His mother, father, and elder brother shared a home, and there were no marital troubles (beyond unhappiness, perhaps, but the ship was stable), and always had been.

Now, if this is the mindset of a settled boy, then what the hell goes on in the mind of some of our more disturbed children? And when I say ours, I mean that. We're all members of society, and we shouldn't turn a blind eye, however easy that option seems.

The solutions can often be simple, but no one seems to want to take the job on.

I'd be interested to hear your ideas for solutions Des (smile to show that is a genuine q)

This is interesting debate, but doesn't it suggest more about how man are portrayed in society - as tough/physical/less emotional and the roles they often fufil - working out the home/long hours/less child care involvement etc.

Than whether people should tell other kids off?

You find this in education too. Young male teachers in secondary schools can have a tough ride the first few years until they establish themselves. It's like stags butting heads!

DH has an excellent relationship with the hard nuts he teaches, based upon wit (or stupidity ) & fatherly sternness so I never worry about him then.

But you are right Desi about males being wary about intervening. When a child fell over in the playground, dh was nearest but waited until I came over and dusted him down and found his mum. I said, you might have picked him up but dh just shrugged and I knew he was right to feel uncomfortable & it would have made the child's mum uneasy I suspect too.

I do speak out if I see something dangerous or unacceptable going on and do not have issues with others doing the same to my children. There's a difference between asking someone not to do something and threatening them.

I'm a bit more wary with teenagers these days but it annoys me that I have to feel afraid to speak out. A few years ago DH and I were the only people on our street who ever spoke to the gang that were plaguing our area, it eventually meant that we couldn't safely leave the house as they took to throwing stones etc at us.

Last year a teenager (19) told me he'd shoot me dead for telling his kid that throwing stones at my cat was not nice. He argued that the child (3) was too small to know better so he could do it...err how is he supposed to learn if someone doesn't teach him?

I think all the children on my old estate have now breathed a sigh of relief that I'm gone , I'm also the sort to tolerate footballs etc coming over the wall with a two strikes and then send your mum to collect your ball for you. Ok so I'm off to change my name to Victor Meldrew.

But that's what men are, Slur, and that's what they do.

They're different from us, and I don't go with the old melting pot POV.

The reason adolescent boys are angry is because they need the male perspective in their lives. You don't need to understand that. I don't need to understand that.

It's for the men and the boys to sort out amongst themselves.

So, you ask for solutions? Well, as a student of the University of Life, I have noticed over the years that whenever an Alpha Male does decide to do something positive with young men, the effects are astounding.

Right. But I'm not saying anywhere that men should be the same as women. far from it. But to have a male perspective in their lives, a little more support to be present in the childrens' lives would be a good thing. Which is why I support paternity pay/flexi-working career breaks etc.

Also I think that what men are is not neccessary tough/unemotional and so on but that often they are told they should eb. That's no fairer than saying women should be emotional and not like sports

So they can sort it out amongst themselves, but I like to give a little support Why not advocate better working practices that enable men to hang out with their lads?

We have no argument there, slur. I agree with your post.

I'm not sure, though, that in this day and age, men and boys are taught to be tough and unemotional ... but I'm certainly not emotional, and I love sport

There's nowt as queer as folk.

As for advocating better working practices, I'm with it and I'm not with it. Having worked for a succession of small companies, I know that carte blanche legislation can put many people out of work.

But we make choices, as individuals. Me and dh chose to take a massive drop in income so that we could provide constant stay at home care for our son. When one works, the other is home, etc. Oddly enough, we seem to be more cash rich by our decision, because we pay out less.

A difficult subject, and veering off course, but I whole-heartedly agree that legislation must take into account the father's role in a child's upbringing wherever possible.

I hardly dare look at other people's children when their parent is close by as the other parent always seems to glare back at me. But I have been known to tell kids off.

One occasion was when I spotted some schoolkids teasing a baby hedgehog that had found it's way onto the green in front of our house. I gave them short shrift and thankfully we didn't get a brick through the window.

The other recent occasion was in Tesco when I saw a couple of kids throwing apples around. Little did I know their mum was just across the aisle, but thankfully she didn't mind me doing it.

I don't think I'd dare intervene where young thugs are concerned though.

i tell em off but then i am a trained chastiser. if a kid is like under 10 at a pkayground ill tellthem not to throw bark( wtf is that for that stuff) and if they are titchy ill say it very gently
you dont HAVe to shout.
i wodul do the same to teenagers. if they were litterging btu it slal in the manner insnt it.

rememerb mr cod and the flight incident?
cnat findt he thread

I have told others children of if the parents are not around , BUT have been on receiving end of seeing my own dd told of for making noise when HER own girls were making just as much noise.

I had ALREADY spoken with my dd about the noise level (we were in a restaurant). I still smart about it now , I was annoyed as I was sitting right there , it wasnt her place , also it was a friend of my sisters and not someone Im close to .

I think its highly condescending in some situations to tell other children off when parents are around and infers that you have the moral high ground and they arent doing something they should. I believe in levels of discipline (no hitting,pushing, rudness,unkindness to other children etc), but when its toddlers its not an easy task.Some parents just dont do telling off , (may be taking Montessori styls to far may be????? )

Despite this , if another child has pushed mine of a slide say and the mum isnt around , I will go over and intervene in a subtle way by not honing to much in on the child direct, and as others have said , use the word please a lot, so a "please lets take it in turns and no pushing , hey guys".

yes i htink oyu cna disnintguish ebwteen telligng off for danger( ie that will hrut someone or is against he law) nad just i dont liek oyur beahviour