Times article on sleep

[vict17]

Coddy pointed it out in another thread but just read it and thought others might find it interesting/useful
hereitis

Very interesting. I slept with my baby rather than face controlled crying. In the end I adapted it at 10 months by sitting in with my ds and gently lying him down every five minutes with a gentle "time to sleep". He still shouted alot but just the fact that I was in the room helped me as I could see he was okay. When he got too stressed then I would lift and cuddle. It worked but took a month

Mandy

you know, my mum used to tell me off if I let my dd cry - she told me it harmed the brain. I told my friend who was massively into controlled crying and she laughed and said "how can it?"

it's such a fine line isn't it? We often have to leave ds crying because we know he's overtired and he goes to sleep within about 10 minutes. But it's hard not to go and pick him up, even though we know it won't help. The article triggers all those guilt feelings when it says it can lead to depression in children etc...

It doesn't make me feel guilty in the least.

Isn't this Margot Sutherland - she of no children and therefore no clue what it's like to be holding your eyes open with matchsticks??! Ah yes, thought so!

Controlled crying is not about leaving a baby to cry hysterically for hours on end - it's about waiting a few minutes then going back, going out and waiting a few mins more. It took me 3 nights of it to go from constant waking up (after 3 or 4 hours of rocking or comforting to sleep by which time I'd had no evening meal, no chat with dh, just straight to bed before on the treadmill the next morning) to going to sleep almost straight away with no fuss and staying asleep through the night.

It's not about leaving your child hysterical clasping hold of the cot thinking you've left them forever.

Oh and one other thing - isn't the advice to walk away for a while when you are at the end of your rope? Otherwise it would be very easy to shake a baby or harm it in some way. Sometimes as a mother who is at the end of her tether - you have to walk away and calm down.

It's the industry around CC that bothers me, the books you can buy, the devotees, the gurus (Chris Green, or Ferber), the way it can be almost the only technique on offer if you ask for help with sleep problems (Crisis are big on CC). The Times article points out that it's wrong to trust an "expert" over your own gut instincts, and wrong to assume that any parenting technique is right for "all" babies. I think alternatives are being promoted more widely now, thank goodness. Not saying Cc is always wrong, but for a while it seemed either full co-sleeping or CC were the only 2 games in town.

In desperation, you do just about any thing though dont you?
We have tried the controlled crying technique but i found it jusy too distressing and had to go to DS.
I have now accepted that he is a bad sleeper and that i shall simply have to weather the storm until he is old enough to put this problem to bed himself (as it were).
If he is upset, i HAVE to go to him, i cant not.
You will probably all tell me its a rod for my own back, i cant help feeling this way. And yes some days im totally zombied, on the days im not i have a good giggle at the funny daft things ive done while bieng on that other planet!

Zebra - that's absolutely right if the only way you find the answer is through a book! A mother should always go with her instinct - I couldn't care less what a book tells me, I'll do it my way thanks very much.

Why do women nowadays seem to need a manual? Seem to need to see it in writing to believe it's the way to do it? Our mothers didn't have them did they?!

You are SO right GDG,thankyou for that posting. I was concerned that they made the controlled crying out to be screaming bubbas for hours on end, you quite rightly point out that its not at all.

GdG - completely agree with you. You've made me feel so much better by expressing how I feel. I always check on him before he's asleep a number of times and if he's really agitated get him up again (this is for daytime naps btw)

As a first time mum, i was given some books, (C.Green etc) and did read them. They served a purpose and i took them and used some points as guidelines and alternative ways of looking at things. This i found very useful.
However, i do tend to do things in my own way and follow my own instinct 99% of the time.
The other 1% is usually guided by other peoples experience, MN included, as i find that information invaluable.
The thing about the books is you have to be confident enough to take or leave them, some people aren't and use them to help them through difficult times, there is nothing wrong with that.

Agree Donbean - I'm a 1st time mum too and tried to read a few books just after the birth of ds. It was totally the wrong time as I was very down and they completely freaked me out so my dh took them away from me. My sister read GF even though she was advised not to by friends and family and it freaked her out. You're right in that you need to be strong mentally so you can think 'oh that's a good idea I'll do that' but also for some bits 'that's a load of crap I'm not doing that'!!

i just do my best, i think provided that they are looked after and loved how you fill in the gaps does not matter one iota, it is so easy for this issue to pitch mother against mother when what i think parents need is non judgmental support and suggestions when asked for - i have an open mind about all this - if a book helps me fine, or if i can find an instinct i am delighted

Vict17 - absolutely. I was given GF when I had ds1 and I've picked bits out that I've used and the rest I've discarded! I use it as a guide for feed and nap times and a general idea of how much milk a baby takes at a certain age. I don't panic if mine don't but it's just handy to know. Her book is way too prescriptive for me and once you've got more than one child is must be nigh on impossible to follow it to the letter.

the most important thing is that it says that prolonged stress can damage the child's brain, and that controlled crying works with some children but it stresses others too much:

i.e. only you as a mother know whether it is a good way of allowing you and your baby the sleep you both need or whether it's not a technique that can work for your individual child....if cc works v quickly, it is probably a great way of avoiding the stress of lack of sleep on both of you. if it doesn't, or if your child's temperament and yours don't fit, don't do it!

exactly, a guide but not a religion. Can't understand why some people get so obsessed with following so-called experts

So what about babies that just cry alot, some do. are we then bad parents causing damage to their brains as we don't know how and really can't stop it?? This whole thing worries me parents beat themselves up over so much, imagine having a really hysterical baby, not only are you feeling at the end of your tether but now you have to feel bad because you could be causing them harm. Oh please lets stop feeling guilty and going with our instincts, and when they don't lead us anywhere then there is no shame in asking for help!!

Thought GF would come up somewhere along this thread. I got given her book when I was heavily pregnant and very gullible. So wanted to do everything "right". Threw the book in the bin without ever putting it into practice. Can only say I broke absolutely every one of her "rules" for routine and ds sleeps 13 hours a night and has done since 10 months.
Quite agree that you should go with your own instincts regarding sleep management. CC can be good but if it doesn't work for your child (mine screamed blue murder until I went to him) then use something else or adapt it to your child. I managed by sitting in with ds (while he yelled at me from cot) and just gently talking to him every 5 mins or so. That way when he got too stressed (or I did) I could lift him out for a calming cuddle before putting him back down. Took a month - Gina would probably get a cure in a week - "Contented Baby" or "Depressed Baby who'slearned that you won't come when he calls" then again she advocates leaving them for 20 mins! Could you stand that? No, neither could I.

Apologies to any GF fans out there.

Its so very difficult isnt MKM, There is no right answer just theories. You so want a happy healthy child and would go to the ends of the earth to get that for them, some expert somewhere would say that you were even doing that wrong i'll bet!

i dipped in and out of various books, from leach to ford and followed my instincts - but i remeber those days i was so tired and it is hard to think coherently when you are up and down four times a night and it is so easy to start believing you are a bad mum - i have met people who were fanatical followers of a particular way whether it was never let their baby so much as wimper to really strict gf'ers they were all doing their best and i think thats some people need to have a completed 'philosophy' to follow and that helps them whereas i was a bit chaotic and one week i would be earth mother and the next routine woman...

IMHO - What a load of tosh the article talks.

Surely if a child knows that he/she is loved and cared for, crying isn't or shouldn't be an issue.
I would say to any mum - trust your instincts, no-one knows a baby better than its mum. Controlled crying didn't work for DD1, but did for DD2 and DS - also worked for Grandson. We only needed to employ the technique for two nights with each of them and they were all very good sleepers after that. We never left them to scream - that's something totally different from crying.

My children ahave grown into well-adjusted, laid back, intelligent young people (apart from DD2 partner issues), and I can see grandson heading that way too, he's so calm it's unbelievable - takes things in his stride.

Comparing what happens to crying babies here with Romanian orphans, who were totally abandond is ridiculous. We're talking about controlled crying in loving families - not leaving our babies to scream and scream until they are very distressed.

The woman responsible for this 'research' and I use the term loosely, has appeared on a number of TV programmes over the past few weeks and doesn't exactly come across as competent.

Additionally, I've never heard of GF, never bought a baby or parenting book as I was determined to do what was best for my babies rather than what some so-called 'expert' told me.

my ds2 is a horror at night, i took him to the docs a few days ago and was more or less told to put up with it, i wont do controlled crying-for a start we live in a terrace and i dont think its fair on my neighbour to put up with wailing all night. spent last night curled up in a cotbed with ds2 and had to leave work early today to get some sleep!
he now has a cough and has had benylin and im hoping it has zonked him out.....watch this space.

Hi tiredmamma, i was wondering how you got on at the Docs.
Still having the same probs eh sweet, me too. Tons of sympathy coming your way xxxxx

thanks donbean- sending high energy vibes your way.
im just accepting the fact like yourself that he is an appaling sleeper and its likely to be like this for a couple of years.he was crying at 2am and ds1 (age 4) shouted from his room "not again mommy- will you put him downstairs, hes too noisy" bless him.