Polish baby boom in UK

[WendyWeber]

blimey - I know they are a valuable addition to our economy, and work v hard, but from 1300 in 2003 to 13000 in 2007; that would be 130,000 in 2011 and 1,300,000 in 2015 if they carry on at the same rate

Southeastastra, Have you read all of the thread? It's just you are asking questions that posts have already answered.

why would i want to polish my baby? He's shiny enough as it is.

er thought i had what point do you mean? i don't like this new layout much and sometimes miss bits

Well just that i saw a feature on the news that had the manager of a bus company Manchester in saying how they'd been forced to recruit Polish bus drivers [trained here] because of lack of interest in the UK.

Hi Ruty I have been following this all day but have been so busy at work that I have been able to reply until now.
I came on the thread originally as I do believe this topic merits discussion and I agree with alot of what you say, especially with regard to Govt and local authority policies towards the elderly and with regards to planning for immigration. It is poor and lacks cohesion and believe me I do agree with you that immigrants do offer alot to the economy.
My concerns are mainly around the fact that how can you allow totally open borders because that will drain the local and national govt resources as discussed. Yes they can be funded more to cope but will people want to pay higher taxes.
Part of my concerns regard the higher levels of immigration and my question is how much is enough, and levels of immigration have been rising over the last ten years. (600,000 last year, however I will balance that with 400,000 approx leaving last year interestingly 200,000 approx f which who were economic migrants returning home)
Additionally immigration will create resentment amongst those most affected which will be the working class. That is why you will see those groups turn to the right wing parties after all who else looks to protect their interests, (or says they will) Come a recession I think this situation could get worse.

SEA - i apologise if you were not blaming immigrants for the countries ills - i thought you were but the thread was moving fast and i was a bit worked up.

coz posts like BGD's scare me. it is apparently intelligent people making statements as if they were fact, who beleive that the arrival of immigrants is really the cause of the very real problems they care about. if you care about these issues, BGD, then lobby govt. look past the simplistic jingoism and nationalistic bollocks at the real causes of the problems and try to change them. spending your energies on mis-directred blame is exactly what the real problem makers want and will do NOTHING to help solve anything.

and kerry, its a bit rich for you to now say the issue is more complicated when you simplified the myriad issues under discussion into a 'we cant take any more' BS line earlier.

i think HeyThereBert is right BGD. I think the government has not been funding hospitals and schools properly, has allowed the housing market to spiral out of control, has allowed big businesses to avoid paying taxes, etc, and of course people need somebody to blame, and the most obvious change to the status quo around a lot of people is the influx of foreigners. But we don't really have open borders. I know how hard it is for many people for Eastern Europe anyway to come here. And people who work in British embassies abroad are often quite colonialist and snotty and make these people feel as small as possible when applying for a visa. And the govt have ensured those from Romania and Bulgaria can't come here for work at moment, maybe that is a good thing, i don't know. But I simply cannot blame the UK's state of affairs on the Poles that come here to work, and work hard, legally, and pay their taxes. that i just don't get.

Bert the point of this is to look at one aspect of politics or whatever you want to call it and discuss it because it affects peoples lives. Of course there are other things in govt etc I do not like and I argue about those issues as well.
I have not said that immigration is the cause of problems in society, I believe it might and probably will raise issues at some point in the future and that it needs to be managed. Other posters on here argue that an open borders policy is workable but I cannot seee how that can be.
This thread has been hard to follow because it has gone from immigration to global economic imperialism and back again. I just wanted to discuss the one issue.

I just found this from sea's link about language probs in schools - there are 1000s of empty places in schools around the country - I suppose matching the incoming families to the places with vacancies is out of the question?

the trouble wendy is that when most people come over they will want to be near people that are similar culturally. Who would want to be put somewhere where you ared out on your own iykwim.

I know that tends generally to be the case with immigrant communities, but I get the impression with the E European migrants that they are spread all over the country - eg we hear foreign accents in the supermarket even here all the time now, and this is a small market town in an affluent part of rural Lancs.

No that's cockney!

I am a southerner, dear, I can translate cockney

i beleive you wendy..but do you do the lambeth walk?

sea
if there are loads of english (i say this is uk wide) sitting on their daytime tv ass getting paid state benefits then they wont be wanting a job..thanks...
some families, generations even sit and fester on benefits
it can be said that it aint worth it for them to work, so lower housing rents or raise wages and make it possible, feasible, reasonable, essential even for those who are physically fit to earn your way....day in day out like the rest of us..

why should they sit on their lardy ass when others have to get orf theirs, struggle, juggle to pay to live etc

and
then give hardworking tax paying whoevers from whereever a hard time??

You see hairy you raise another argument then, do you reduce benefits in order to encourage people off benefits and into work. But you know the outcry when this is suggested. It is a catch 22 situation then how can people come to the UK and live yet people already in the UK say they cannot afford to live on the wages offered.

ahh see BGD
i quite liked expatinscotlands idea that you give vouchers you know for food, clothing etc
no fags no booze no unessentials

i would also lower rented HA places in line from the minimum wage
i have someone who knows would think of all sorts of other clever things in tax system, tax credits, etc to just make it the norm to work
if you can
if you are able..ffs...

i just dont see how this benefits har har anyone...

errr, why shouldn't you be able to have some nice things when on benefits. Not every one on benefits is there by choice. 80% of disabled people don't have a job and can't get one because of the prejudice. So they live on benefits. If you gave them food vouchers and said 'no booze or TV for you, you naughty scrounger' then you are punishing someone for being born disabled or becoming disabled.
We're on benefits. I'm disabled but when I had a brain damaged child I couldn't cope with lifting her etc so DH had to give up work. After 20 years of working hard. There was no choice. Are we to be denied the odd luxury, and believe you me, on benefits we couldn't afford to smoke or drink and I haven't had new clothes in years. Every penny we get goes on keeping the house warm fr dd and buying her the vital equipment that isn't available on the NHS. Then there are constant taxi fares to hospital - you tried getting on a bus with 2 wheelchairs?
I don't want vouchers or the Govt or the non-disabled decideding what I am allowed. Its like going back to the days when we chucked my sort in an institution.

And immigrants pay taxes. Taxes equals more money for Govt. The Govt then should be spending it on schools/hospitals/public transport etc. This is a rich country, why don't we have decent services. Its nothing to do with immigrants, who, as I said, are generally working and paying taxes.

I haven't read all of this thread, but remember watching a program on ch4 which opened my eyes to alot of what is really happening in our country.

We need immigration, what we need is better controls. Apparently, IIRC, 80% of Nigerians that come to the UK are working, and on average the polish work longer hours than the British workers, whereas another countries immigrants (I can't remember who exactly and do not want to get it wrong) had around 80% of their people on benefits. So there is a cultural difference between groups of immigrants.

WRT the British people that migrate, are they eligible for any kind of government handouts when they reach other countries???

Oh, and I would assume that with the polish, being unable to take a British husband back to their country would account for a lot of the births being here. I know a polish lady whose husband is a brit and at the most can still only get 6month visiting visas to Poland, despite being married to her.

If anyone wants to read the study the program was based on it is here

I think at some point it was mentioned that our NHS would be extremely close to collapse if not for all the Nigerian doctors and nurses working in them. There just aren't enough people training to do these jobs.

IMO, positive immigration should be encouraged, however, it would be extremely hard to discriminate against what could possibly be negative immigration. How do we know these people aren't going to provide a valuable contribution to out society?

As for the old line of 'stealing our jobs' that is tosh, there are a great deal of jobs out there, the immigrant workers are just more often happy to take on the jobs other people do not want.

The Poles don't really 'cluster' in certain areas to be near each other.
Good posts needmorecoffee. Bloody hell you've had a rough time. Very though that the goverment let families down like this.

Another point for immigration, it is in actual fact the Canadians, Americans and French that work the longest, are the highest educated and the highest paid in the UK, therefore paying most taxes. The British people themselves are about 5th in that list.

But it's all in that study anyway.

I agree with you Victorian yes immigrants do bring a benefit to the country one of which is that they accept low paid jobs and so keep salaries and inflation down. That is part of the reason why successive govts have been happy to let people come to the uk. And yes there are doctors nurses and other poeple of skill that also offer alot to the economy.
My point is though that this needs to be managed and shown to be managed other wise you will have a situation of resentment particularly from the working class who are the people who will be most affected as it will be there jobs and social services (ie housing lists school places etc) that will be under presuure. (ie unskilled low paid work)
If people wonder why there is the rise of BNP etc then you have to look at their policies and see where their support is coming from and you have to address those issues.

needmorecoffee
i meant the people who can work but dont....

i completely take your points..and i think the best way would be re-classify and pay you to look after and do the job you and your dh do now...

i am talking about the people you dont contribute, when they easily can..

you care for a vunerable member of society and for that society should pay you as it must be cheaper for one and better all round this way?

i didnt mean this

i can understand the shit disablee people get in the job market,
heard they were closing more of the factories too ..

no offence meant

the clever people would think all these things out...