Comprehensive schools 'are too big' says schools minister...

[edam]

Durrrrrr.... I could have told them that 20 years ago.

split comps into smaller schools

Let's hope that the penny drops over this most obvious point.

Not very big or clever of me, but can't help sniggering every time I see Andrew Adonis's name. He hardly lives up to it!

2,000 pupils

My secondary school had about 600, and although my brothers school had about 1,000, it was split into 2 and that seemed to work (the equivalent of Yrs 7 & 8 were in a separate building)

Message withdrawn

I konw. Lord Adonis is about as grand as a name can get so when I saw a picture of him I was deeply disappointed.

Interesting POV, Cod
But having been to two large comps (each around 1,500) I felt anonymous. And there was no way the teachers knew or could be in control of what was going on. Was much better at my last school, about 600 of us.

The comp nearest to us has a 12 form intake!

I believe the school is run as separate year groups though so effectively lots of smaller schools IYSWIM.

our school is over 2000, but is split into houses, adn there's been a lot of time effort and money into making sure the pastoral care is as good as it can be. FWIW DD1 is known by sight and name to the majority of the senior management team, plus a fair few random teachers who haven't taught her (her friends think it's funny, she gets quite embarrased when various deputy heads ask her how things are going).
it really depends on the school - a good one will still be good, a bad one bad despite the size.

The school I went to was 12 form entry.. (I left 28 years ago )

12 form entry

(sorry, am being particularly inarticulate on this matter)

I spent most of last year working in a very large and successful (by Ofsted standards) comprehensive. I really felt that it was too big. The site wasn't particularly massive, but they had split most of the classrooms into two to accommodate their increased numbers. This meant that it was difficult to see what the pupils were getting up to, as you couldn't walk behind them

Lesson changes were always stressful, trying to get the large number of pupils on the corridors at the same time. And there were three lunch sittings, staggered across lesson times.

The size of our secondary has been steadily creeping up over the last 5 years, and we currently have up to 210 per year group. Most staff and pupils agree it is too big and too anonymous.

What do the LEA want to do? Close the school and some others and create an even bigger Academy

They've quoted some NFER research to say that bigger schools are more effective. But I've been unable to find any NFER research that says that. When I questioned it at the meeting, they promised to send me a copy, but I haven't seen it yet.

No shit

DD attends a school with a 10 form intake that is very sought after. Another large comprehensive not too far away is the top ranking comp in the region.

She says that they can really split the streams up, from non-english speakers/total strugglers to very high fliers. There are over 400 in her 6th form and lots transfer there.

However, DS attends a smallish grammer at that has its own advantages.

I don't personally think size of school matters. I went to a huge school (over 3,500 pupils) and loved it, it was full of variety and interest.

It depends on the child. A large school often has better facilites, more choice at GCSE, A-level and various sport, better ICT equipment, better range of equipment for science practicals. However a large school requires an exceptionally talented Senior management team to run smoothly.

I work in a secondary school with 160 kids. (its a state special school) It really feels like a family and everyone knows everyone else. Its good for the kids because it stops them getting lost in a large school. One of the things which is nice is that it is possible to have whole school assemblies.

It is easier to represent your school in sport or plays if there are fewer children to compete for the honour of being on the school team or the christmas play.

Many kids do well in large schools, but some kids need smaller schools. Prehaps there is no simple answer.

Blu, you may have observed that Ark (as mentioned in the article) are behind one of our new local(ish) academies. I see it's going to be a big school split into three smaller schools on the same site. I'm a bit about the whole thing.

These people Human Scale Education have been banging on about small schools for years. From what I've seen, with four dc going through education, I think around 1,000 pupils is as big as a school should be. When it gets to the stage where even the teachers don't know their fellow colleagues, it's time to call a halt, imo.

Hallgerda - I met the Head Designate the other day....he has some v good ideas, I must say...but I don't know anything about the structure.

I think that big schools foster exactly the same social conditions as big cities - people are less familiar with each other, therefore have less of a sense of responsibility for them, and so on and so on. This may not be an issue where people generally behave in a responsible and considerate fashion, but like in cities, it becomes a serious problem when there is a lot of disaffection or little motivation to succeed. There is a huge difference between playground duty and the effect of thier authrority done by someone who knows the first name and some details of every child by sight, and the cloak of anonymity lent by a teacher to whom every child is just another in a black polyester blazer.

Sounds interesting, Blu. I found out about the structure from the online prospectus (just google on the name - I could link, but would rather not as that would involve naming the school on here) - the academy is going to be made up of four small schools of three hundred pupils each, with their own heads and "learning spaces" (aargh!) not three as I mis-remembered.

I don't find prospectuses for new schools terribly encouraging reading - all that educational jargon and well-intentioned rhubarb... so I'd be very interested to hear what gave you a more positive impression, particularly any specifics on actual subjects.

I wish somebody would tell Stoke on Trent City Council this, their bright idea is to close all 17 of the cities High schools and replace them with 4 academies, 5 trust schools and 3 faith schools. The academy that would serve our area would replace 4 existing high schools and have nearly 2500 pupils. My kids will have a 55min walk along a very busy main road to get there whereas if the local high school is kept open they will have a 10min walk through a quiet estate. It seems like a really bad idea to me

There are meetings going on at all the high schools this month, our local meeting is on 22nd. This is actually the 3rd idea they have come up with but this is the one that has Government approval because it was devised by Serco.
All of the existing schools are due for closure in the Summer holidays of 2009. How they think they can actually build 12 schools in 18mths is anybodies guess. Also because all of the schools are going to be new every high school teacher will have to reapply for a job.
My eldest is 6 so hopefully by the time she is due to go to high school it will all be sorted out. I really don't like the idea of any of my kids going to such a large school though, how are teachers supposed to get to know all their pupils when there are over 2000 of them?