Should pregnant women be banned from smoking in light of new research?

[hunkermunker]

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"Nine out of 10 mothers whose babies suffered cot death smoked during pregnancy, according to a scientific study to be published this week. The study, thought to be one of the most authoritative to date on Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), says women who smoke during pregnancy are four times more likely than non-smokers to see their child fall victim to cot death."

Personally, I find it very, very hard to understand why anybody smokes while knowingly pregnant. And yes, I know it's addictive. I speak as an ex-smoker, not somebody who has no idea what it's like to have a love affair with the evil weed.

Aitch, it was the pits. I sobbed on here over not being able to find something I could eat without putting my baby and myself at risk. Some very lovely, generous MNers gave me their time and wisdom at the time and I knew it was only for a limited period of time - and then it was only me that was affected by eating whatever I wanted (see the parallels!) - and not my baby, not directly.

And you're right, I couldn't go cold turkey with food (mmm, turkey...) - and I had no idea what my body was going to do when faced with different foods.

actually hunker if blood levels arent kept under control once baby is born it can suffer badly as well, and be quite unwell.

serenas blood sugars dropped after borth and she was at risk of fitting, so was taklen to SCBu to be tube fed.

[thats what i was told by scbu team anyway]

Well, for one thing (as someone has already said) the prohibition model just doesn't work very well - it just sends the trade underground and adds violence and criminality to the addiction and health problems.

Also, very few people who have any degree of self-determination abstain from absolutely all harmful practices - they play rugby (can easily cause horrific injuries), climb mountains, sail, eat rubbish food, drink alcohol, watch too much telly, don't take enough exercise, and so on - all things that can have significant adverse effects on health. If you ban smoking, you have to make an argument for smoking being so much worse than all these other practices. Alcohol abuse, for instance, has pretty horrific effects on people around the drinker, not just the drinker himself.

I know blood sugars in the baby are important after they're born (I posted about DS2's treatment at the time and several times since!) - I meant what I ate after the baby was born wouldn't affect the baby in the same way.

DS2 was threatened with NNU (well, with formula first, then IV dextrose when I said no to formula).

but doesnt it also affect the growth of the baby as well?

dd3 was 2 weeks early and just short of 8lb. dd2 was 1 week early and 9lb.

both a big difference from dd1, born bang on date at 6lb 15oz.

If you don't control your blood sugar levels while you're pregnant, then yes, it can have serious consequences for the baby (fatal, I believe), after the baby's born - hence me saying it's comparable to smoking.

i could control my blood sugars, but i couldnt quit smoking completely.

How do they get this info?

How about asking all parents on MN who have lost a child to cot death if they smoked and see if its the 9/10 that is claimed.... no, thought not.

I smoke, im pregnant. Ive cut down, have tried to quit and cant, but then until any of you walk a mile in my shoes (especially over the last 18mnths) then you hold off on joining the firing squad.

I wish i didnt smoke, wish i wasnt addicted, but i am, and its a real crutch to me at the moment.

I will not return to this thread, so go ahead and flame me all you like.

JARM, they get this info from research. the same research that tells us not to wean newborns, or that breast is best, or that taking drugs in pregnancy harms your babies. i remember a while ago kerry katona was flamed for (allegedly) taking cocaine while pregnant. what if she was addicted to? what if she had tried to quit and couldn't? does that make it forgivable? or acceptable?

If you are allowed legally to kill it before birth (as you are) you can poison it if you choose too. I don't we should change that principle. of course it's wise that parents have as much information as possible so they do the right thing. However I've always thought it was all a bit arbitrary that at birth suddenly you're at risk of your child being taken away if you treat it in certain ways but you can do anything you like until it's emerged from your body.

Xenia, how about that the poisoning that you do to the baby before it's born affects it once it's born?

Let me think... not entirely sure. I think it's more that it might be taken straight into care if you're a bad drug addict whose drug taking in pregnancy has hurt it and everyone knows you can't look after it rather than you'd be imprisoned for damage you did to it in pregnant. I think legally you can probably do what you like to it before it's born but I'm not an expert.

I think whilst it's still in you it's up to you what you do. So if say you refuse a blood transfusion and you die or that kills it or you dive off acapulco when 8 months pregnant and kill it I don't think that's illegal in England anyway.

Once its born if you continue to take drugs, neglect it, over or underfeed it so it will be very badly ill then of course we intervene and remove the child.

It's a very interesting issue. The Catholic church would say our bodies aren't realy our own anyway - we just look after them, entrusted with them by God and that it certainly is a moral obligation to look after your body and any baby you carry properly and I always feel fathers should have rights too over the unborn child but that's not the current law.

Jarm,

They get the info from the fact that every pregnant woman is asked about her smoking status, obviously if their baby has a cot death they will go back and look at that info.

I don't think pregnant woman should be banned from smoking - and I'm an anti-smoking health professional. I think the other risks to women from making them stop an addictive habit overnight would be too high. Pregnancy is already a very anxious, stressful time for a lot of women without giving them nicotine withdrawal as well. The incidence of ante-natal depression, pnd would shoot up I'd have thought.

Instead we ought to be looking at today's teenagers to see what can be done to ensure they never start smoking. Upping the age to 18 and banning smoking in pubs is a good step but we need more education and probably higher tax as well.

What I dont get is this, and forgive me for not being as eloquent as many of you. Society seems to think one has a duty to help a neglected child, social services exist for a reason, some children are taken into care, etc, sometimes parents get help in their parenting, as this is to the best of the child. Why should the child only receive help after it is born? If the child is suffering neglect while still in the woomb, we are powerless? It is a question of saving a baby's life! If a woman has been told the risks, yet ignoring the advise given, isnt she guilty of neglecting her unborn child? Is this child abuse with death as possible outcome?

If one starts talking about the right of the fetus, I think the above logically follows.

thats a good point. as i said earlier if a woman was snorting cocaine on a daily basis while pregnant we would all be up in arms about it. even if the woman was addicted, we would have very little sympathy. i am aware that it isnt exactly the same, but they are both incredibley harmful and addictive substances, newborn babies suffer nicotine withdrawal too, should we offer them a fag to take the edge off?

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Pruners, how does it violate a womans human rights to help her stop smoking or snorting cocaine? It is in her best interests as well as the childs.

Maybe she shouldnt be pregnant if she puts her addictions before her child. Maybe she is unfit for motherhood, and as somebody who carries a child, maybe she ought to lose these liberties?

Again, if you are unfit for motherhood after your child is born and you mistreat it, you lose your right to parenthood. Why not while the baby is still in the womb?

If you snort cocaine every day in pregnancy I don't think they can lock you up or prevent you doing it. I think this is a position women fought very very hard for over many years - that our bodies are our own even if we're pregnant and even if we hurt an unborn child. It would be a very radical step to change that.

JARM, this is a study combining results from 21 other studies. I have only skimmed the paper but as an example one of those studies covers 300 cases of SIDS. In what way would doing a survey of MN possibly, conceivably compare with that???

Call me an idealist.
I think that while you are pregnant, the baby should own your body (you are its vehicle) and not the other way around, and the needs of the baby to stay healthy and survive should be put before a mothers rights to snort cocaine.

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this is getting bloody ridiculous. of course pregnant women know it is bad for their babies health if they smoke - just like we all know it is bad for your babies health to bottle-feed. if this thread was about the detrimental effects of bottlefeeding and for bottlefeeding to be illegal there'd be a hell of a lot more up-roar of "it's my choice".

well sorry but it's the same for smoking. it's their choice.

im not talking about the legal implications xenia, its the moral implications. it is harmful. it is addictive. it could kill your baby as well as you. you may not go to jail for it, but it doesnt mean it's right.

but if you take that to it;s logical conclusion, then you could well end up with situations where women were denied abortions, or prosecuted for drinking alcohol, or not taking folic acid.. the rights of the living have to take precedence, IMO over the unborn to a certain extent. women should never, ever be reduced to a uterus on legs, whose rights are superseded by an unborn child. women rarely drink /smoke / take drugs when pregnant for the hell of it.. addictions are complex. not to say i think smoking / drinking/ drug taking are ok when pregnant..