Should pregnant women be banned from smoking in light of new research?

[hunkermunker]

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"Nine out of 10 mothers whose babies suffered cot death smoked during pregnancy, according to a scientific study to be published this week. The study, thought to be one of the most authoritative to date on Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), says women who smoke during pregnancy are four times more likely than non-smokers to see their child fall victim to cot death."

Personally, I find it very, very hard to understand why anybody smokes while knowingly pregnant. And yes, I know it's addictive. I speak as an ex-smoker, not somebody who has no idea what it's like to have a love affair with the evil weed.

" By kittywitch on Sun 14-Oct-07 13:59:00
How about banning women from having kids until they can prove that they
A) have enough money
B) are emotionally mature enough
C) fill in your own..........

There are worse things you can do to a baby/child"

but if the mortality stats are correct, then there aren't worse things you can do, are there? it's quite a big risk to take, by the looks of things.

Hunker, of course it is shocking. But it should not be used to demonise women. Apart from anything else, attacking smokers just makes them more likely to reach for the fags - that's what we do when under pressure. Might make the sanctimonious feel good but does absolutely nothing to make the world a better place.

Although I'd like to read the actual research, not merely a journalist's interpretation of it - being a journalist myself, with the best will in the world, the newspaper report might not be an entirely accurate summary.

I'd like to see what are the actual risks. What is the basic risk of cot death? What is the risk if you don't smoke? And what is the (presumably increased) risk if you do smoke? Imagine it would be hard to control for all confounding factors - sleeping position/poverty/ etc. etc. etc. But it would be interesting to see what they could come up with.

If, for instance, the basic risk of cot death is, say 1 in 50,000 then a risk for smokers of 1.5 in 50,000 would be worrying, worth avoiding, but hardly grounds for social services or police invervention as some people have proposed. And probably described as '50 per cent increase' terrifying people unnecessarily.

Aitch, not everywoman who smokes has a baby that dies of cot death, infact MOST don't.
They do not know what causes cotdeath.
There are many things that need looking at about these woman who smoke. Lifestyle in general would be a good start.
I am far more concermed about the lives of theses poor infants born to parents that patently are in no position to bring up a child in a stable and secure home.

Aitch, I can't see any stats given in the newspaper research to back up your claim (yet) that smoking is the worst thing you can do. Need the full report with comparitive figures on risks to non-smokers and smokers, and all other risks to the health and wellbeing of babies, to make that call.

Frankly, I wish smoking had been bloody banned before I was a teenager. But it hasn't been and we have to deal with the world as it is.

IIRC after sleeping position, poverty is the biggest risk factor for cot death as far as we know. This research may feed into the calculations but it's complicated because smoking is linked to poverty.

Perhaps we should all be feeling guilty about allowing our governments over the past 30 years to worsen the gap between rich and poor? And being more bothered about sodding inheritance tax than child poverty?

No, most babies don't die of cot death.

But this research is saying that 90% of those who sadly do have mothers who smoked in pregnancy.

Of course smoking whilst pregnant isnt the worst thing you can do, there are babies born with heroin addictions and fetal alcohol syndrome fgs.

BUT smoking whilst pregnant causes HUGE issues, not just cot death. Yet many smokers choose to ignore them and then say their children are fine despite them smoking.

Truth be told, many smokers children DO have some kind of issue, possibly related to smoking, but these same issues occur in children whose parents did not smoke, so we can not be sure what caused it.

IMO, parents start being parents when the child is conceived at the latest, would the same parents sit in an oxygen tank with a baby and smoke?? Of course they wouldnt.

More needs to be done to stop pregnant women smoking, but these figures sadly, are unlikely to make a difference, all we will see is people blaming other factors and not accepting smoking is a huge one, why??

Because they already know the risks and have chose to ignore them in order to relieve themselves of some guilt.

i didn't say that everyone who smokes kills their baby, fgs. but it's a binary thing. smoke or don't smoke. increase the risk or lower the risk.

if there's an established link, and it seems like there is, then you are now knowingly taking that risk when you smoke in pregnancy.

statistics are interesting, but by definition they provide a general picture.

if there's a casual nexus between cot death and smoking in pregnancy that is interesting. if it's you who smokes and your baby who dies that is devastating. not a risk i'd take. but then i speak as someone who gave up a few years before ttc.

to be clear about this... the worst thing as a parent would be to be implicated in the death of your child. if your child dies, that's the worst thing for the child.

no point pissing about with FAS or heroin-addicted children and saying that's worse or better or whatever. a dead child is a dead child. and devastated parents.

and i cannot imagine living with the knowledge that my child had died and i'd smoked knowing that it increased the chances of that happening. but it's the sort of thing you'd only find out backwards.

speaking as someone who's experienced some losses and searched to find a stick to beat myself with, to find an answer for why bad things happen, i think that if you had done something to increase your child's risk of death and then the worst happened, i doubt you'd survive the experience.

I agree Aitch, a dead baby is the worst that could happen, what I meant to to say was that even for smokers children that didnt die, there are huge implications, obviously not the worst, but still huge.

So even without this new research surely the best thing to do is not smoke whilst pregnant?

oh of course, horrible. there are no shortage of shitey ways to treat children, that's for sure. i smoked for years, btw, and loved it. would still smoke now if it wasn't so kinda disgusting and ludicrously expensive (and dangerous).

smoking is legal. you cannot tell pregnant women not to smoke, no more than you can tell people not to have an abortion. what other people do is not really up to anyone but themselves. i hate the way people feel they have the right to tell pregnant women how to lead their lives. just leave them be.

Yes that's true.
Because if the argument is that smoking should be banned because of possible health implications then surely abortion should be banned too because that is the worst thing that could happen to a foetus.
Where do you draw the line?

beautifuldays do you think it is alright for a pregnant woman to inject heroin whilst pregnant?? or is that ok to not condone as it is illegal??

What about drink a bottle or two of vodka a day?? That too is legal, but harmful.

Aitch FWIW, I too used to smoke, and still sometimes wish I had one to accompany a beer, until I smell smokers and remember I dont smell like that anymore!!

I seem to remember reading somewhere that boys are at a higher risk of cot death than girls and that there were more cot deaths of winter babies than those born in any other season. These 2 facts stuck in my mind because I read them when my ds was born and he was a February baby. I can't find any references to these 2 facts at the moment but will probably look for them. Perhaps further research found that there was more involved than first appeared.
Surely we shouldn't forbid conceptions that might result in winter babies because they are more at risk of cotdeath.

Of course the best thing to do is not smoke while pregnant, that's hardly new information!

What might be new is research about a link between smoking and cot death. Sounds like a powerful piece of research, I'll be interested to see it.

I don't think that people are making much allowance here for the fact that some people find it more difficult to stop. I stopped in early pregnancy - but it was relatively easy for me, as I was hyper-emetic and would vomit if someone walked past my house smoking a fag. I had tried to stop many times before I got pregnant, and had never been successful. I think it's mistaken to say 'well, I managed to stop, therefore other women should be able to stop too'.

i don't think it's right for pregnant women to smoke, or take drugs or drink vodka. i also don't think it's right to smack children or smoke in the room they're in, or feed them mcdonalds etc etc etc etc.....

BUT i don't think it is my place to tell other people how to lead their lives. we are all entitled to think it's wrong for pregnant women to smoke or whatever else. however, we don't have the right to tell them not to.

it's odd, as soon as women become pregnant, other women feel like they have some sort of right to dictate what they should be doing and how they should be behaving. there are lots of thinks that are wrong in this world, but is not my place to tell other people how to lead their lives.

Ok, to put the matter in a fresh light, here are some medical researchers suggesting a link between bottle feeding and an increased risk of cot death. In a reputable medical journal (although I haven't followed the citation to the original research).

If anyone dared start a thread condemning mothers who don't breastfeed, with the sort of language used in the posts on this thread, there would be outrage. And quite rightly so.

cot death and bottle feeding

beautfiful, agree with every word. I recommended 'Policing Pregnancy' by Sheena (Sheila?) Meredith further down the thread - fascinating and terrifying account of the way society seeks to control pregnant women.

well of course an abortion is the worst thing that could happen to a foetus, what a ridiculous point to make. but we don't take the foetus' vote on that one. nor do we take his point on FAS, heroiin or smoking. if we did, i'm certain he'd ask mummy to hold off on the drugs until he's out.

we draw the line at women being responsible for their own bodies until the baby is born and becomes a separate legal entity, that's why abortion is legal.

i'm not arguing for a ban on pregnant smokers, apart from anything else it would be impossible to administer.

but as a general point, which i think is all hunker was trying to make, it is shocking that there now appears to be a clear link between smoking in pregnancy and cot death (worked backwards, obv) and should that mean that we are less tolerant of this 'leave pregnant women be' attitude?

because i personally think it was a fucking disgrace that i had to wade through hundreds of cigarette dowds and numbers of pregnant women smoking when i went to my ante-natal appointments. if one of those children died and the mother has read today's news reports, then i don't know how she'd cope. when bad things happen people tell you 'there was nothing you could have done...' but now? what a shame.

Just wanted to add - this is not new research. I did my degree in the early 90's with a woman who worked for FSID - and their research at the time linked SID and smoking. It's data that has been around for years, every so often, it gets pushed under the carpet whilst he media have something else to focus on - just seems to have become 'popular' again.

Smoking in pg is very bad for mum and baby.
But there are other things that are bad for the baby - eating liver pate is one! Too much retinol has been linked to foetal abnormalities.
I've got a great idea. As soon as a woman discovers she is pg, she must then report to a sanatarium, be chained to a bed and drip fed. Therefore she can't possibly do anything to harm the baby
BTW - I'm very anti-smoking. But banning pg women is not the way to solve it.

Aitch, you're so very polite

i thought the previous link was between smoking in the house and FSID, not a clear causal link between smoking in pregnancy and cot death. is none of it new, do you think?
responding to edam's point about cot death and formula, wasn't there a heated thread about this? i'm sure i remember something about it.
if this reserach is out there and if a mother has lost her child, she'll get on the internet adn find it and feel utterly wretched about it. that's what we do.