Community Support Workers refuse to rescue 10yr old as not properly trained......

[Wisteria]

here

Hope there was more to this than apparent. Would you need proper 'training' to rescue a 10yr old?
This is procedural bollocks in my humblest of opinions - you would have thought it would be a no-brainer, see drowning child, jump in, no?

Was talking to dh (firefighter) about this today.

Apparently he's not supposed to go in although he has done several times (risking being put on a charge). The official line is wait for the water crew (there's just one in N.Staffs unknownrebel - in Leek!) As a last resort they're supposed to put on the wetsuit and go in roped. That takes a good few minutes so your chances of being rescued are pretty slim, unless someone is willing to take a chance.

I do feel sorry for everyone invovled in this- including the aprents, OK so their TV interview may ahve been misjudged to some of us but well, you're allowed to mijudge andbe angry aboutt hings when your beloved son has died .

After 25 minutes, there seems little point of jumpng in.... if he ad just gone under I think the vast majority of people would try, but 25 minutes is a long time.

Don't feel angry at the aprents either- we were allowed out from the age of 8 (qute late for someone born in the 70's so not neglectful at all) and as we lived near a canal, docks and streams they ahd no way of keeping us away from them, we were banned and punished if found out, but beyond that we lied and hid our doings.

Of course they're allowed to be angry, Peachy and I really feel for them, but having had DH and his colleagues pilloried because of some mis-informed news story, I also feel for the PCSOs.

These PCSOs have been slated right across the meeeja and internet forums.

Do some people really think they're happy to have stood on the side of the water knowing there's a young lad in there?

It's horrible being accused of doing something (or not in this case) when other don't know the full facts.

Had the PCSOs dived in they would have been hailed heroes. As it is, they didn't and they're branded cowards. In either case it seems likely that Jordan would not have survived being submerged under water for that length of time.

Given the basics of the story (i.e. the bits the media have decided to feed us) I would have gone in after him even though I'm not a terrifically strong swimmer. However, I wasn't there, I don't know the lake, I don't know how long Jordan had been under the water and I have no real right to pass judgement on something about which I only have half a story.

I do, however, feel desperately sorry for his family, and especially his little sister.

In the cold light of day, would that be a sensible thing to do?

I have to hold my hand up to being all over the place on this thread. I initially dissed the PCSOs - probably in the knowledge that dh would have gone in. In all likelihood he wouldn't have come out - he truly is a crap swimmer. So there would have been two lives lost. The PCSOs (with the full knowledge of the facts, which we don't have) made the decision not to. They must have been sure that he couldn't be saved.

Poor family

OOps rebel- I did man to type I felt sorry for the PCSO's- started to on second line, got distracted

Do feel bad for everyone invovled, although obv. worse for family

Oh me too.

If I'm honest, my gut reaction when I heard it on the radio was WTF? but then you get to see and hear more of the story, and it's so easy to judge after the event.

Not sure where you are getting the basis of your assertion, edam, but it simply isn't true. When there is immediate risk to oneself, but you decide to do it anyway, the uniform you wear is utterly immaterial(!). IME there is no higher profile for firefighters over police other than in a romanticised image.

We DO have an ambivalent attitude to acts of bavery..if it is successful, or heroic but failed, then pass the awards, though you took a wildly irresponsible risk to yourself/family/colleagues. If you reamin cool-headed, make an intelligent risk assessment, and bravely make a decision to do what you can short of imperiling yourself, then the knives are out. We seem to prefer dead emergency service workers than highly professional ones whilst muching on tea and toast. Valiant but dead - interesting. Shrewd and alive - boring.

but i think the point that ambulances are often delayed is a valid one.

Very well put, Pan.

DH, like his colleagues in both the police and the fire service, has throughout his working life saved people's lives, he has also had to stand back and watch others die.

And all credit to the paramedics in our local area, they were renowned for having the best response times in the country. Not sure what the current situation is.

Psst, Saggars, I knew that about Leek, I had the pleasure of visiting our local fire station with a group of beavers the other week. Very pleasant way to spend the evening

oh yes rebel - I bet you had a great time unless it was dh's station cos they're all a bit minging.

It's unfair to compare the emergency services I think. They all face different challenges. dh would certainly rather face a burning building than a bloke with a knife.

Unknownrebel, the research project I was involved in over several years did indeed highlight Staffordshire's brilliance. Your service saved about 4,000 lives a year beyond what the average ambulance service achieves. Sadly in political terms the knives were always out for Staffordshire for showing up the poor performers, particularly the lazy lets-just-muddle-on brigade. Not much sharing good practice going on at the Dept. of Health as far as ambulances were concerned.

Pan, disagree. Despite having good friends in the police.

It is unfair to compare the services, but they all face some horrendous challanges.

Hehe - it was Long*, but there was Bob from Boslem (usually) on duty that night, which made me laugh, as currently DH is also Bob from Boslem too (obv different uniform, lol).

x-posts Edam. Really, are the figures that high? That would make a hell of a difference in an area like Staffs.

Not sure what the current situation is, other than talks of a merger across the region. (and not just the ambulance service).

Off-topic, but interesting point (to me anyway), one of the former topbods from Staffs Ambulance Service has just become the Chair of the Board for my Probation area.

Ah now dh is from Boslem. He probably knows your Bob and deffo the other Bob.

The amalgamation with blimmin West Mids Ambulance and the privatisation of some of the services will put paid to Staffs good reputation I think.

By 'eck, they've been busy in Boslem today.

Sure have. dh should have been on a course today; pitched up at 8 and got sent on the shout. They were a bit stretched.

It was going ar$ehole to breakfast.

DH was on earlies, strictly speaking, it's not on his area, but as there was no supervision he ended up being there - and got doorstepped by Radio Stoke ffs.

I could see the smoke from when I dropped the boys off at school (several miles!) and virtually followed it on my way to work (still 2/3 miles away).

Couldn't believe it when I heard the news and they said where it was.

Saggar, sadly you will probably be proved right - Staffordshire irritated the Dept. of Health and many of top bods in other trusts by showing them up.

Typical shodding reporting by the media.

Parents are not really in a position to be criticising the PCOs are they? They weren't supervising when it happened. And as has come out further on they PCOs did not stand and watch the boy drown at all.

"This does'nt shock me, i was watching one of those police programs on the tv a few weeks ago and they showed a young man (drunk) jump into a river/cannal outside a bar, the police were called and they just stood there as passer's by searched for the man, they said they were not trained to deal with it and it was far too dark and cold to find him. Divers were called in and they found him, dragged him out but it was too late. "

So some stupid drunken prat jumps into a canal. Why on earth should the police risk their lives by jumping in after him if he's A - out of sight and B- they have no safety equipment?
Sad that he died but lets not carve up the police over it - they didn't give the silly sod all the alcohol did they?