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biggest mosque in europe to be built in london

47 replies

southeastastra · 08/09/2007 21:15

what do you think?

OP posts:
Tortington · 10/09/2007 12:26

i didn't expect you to - i wondered with the information and research people do to form an intelligent argument whether this had been factored and whether anyone had this information to hand.

thats all

ImBarryScott · 10/09/2007 12:26

nice post blu.

as far as i'm concerned, any objections should be based on traffic/parking/noise/access just as with any other large development.

Blu · 10/09/2007 12:26

What if it was a 'giant mosque' of the nature of the Paris Mosque? A truly beautiful building, a source of huge learnedness in the attached library and study centre, a place where anyone can go and lounge around and drink the only mint tea I have ever enjoyed in relaxing surroundings? Would you still object?

eleusis · 10/09/2007 12:27

So why does it need to be so big if not to make a statement of superiority? I don't call that tit for tat. It is much bigger and much more serious that "tit for tat" would imply.

lulumama · 10/09/2007 12:28

eleusis... i think it is propoganda, as i said.. the 'sign the petition to stop ginormous super mosque' has been doing the rounds for ages

i think it is being replayed now as we are approaching the anniversary of 9/11, to stir up anti muslim feelin

Blu · 10/09/2007 12:29

Actually, I have innacurately conflated the Paris mosque with the Arab Institute in my last post...both big and wonderful buildings but not in the same place. Sorry.

McEdam · 10/09/2007 12:29

I don't really want Tablighi Jamaat given any encouragement, or any help in brainwashing people, frankly.

Blu · 10/09/2007 12:32

Whatever it's size, what relevance has what would happen in Tehran got to do with east London, if not somehting v like 'tit-for-tat'?

McEdam · 10/09/2007 12:32

And huge buildings are statements of power. Dick-waving, essentially. That goes for the developers who are trying to put ever bigger skyscrapers on every bloody street corner in London, too.

There's a skyscraper in Hong Kong or Singapore (can't recall which) with an extra tower on top, added when the developer discovered someone else had started building an even bigger building. The structural engineers christened it the "ego tower". Mr Developer found out, admitted it was true, and actually adopted the name.

krang · 10/09/2007 12:33

Erm it is not 'to be built.' In fact, the OP has linked to a story relating to how the group behind the plan have missed the planning deadline. So it is now even less likely 'to be built.

Regarding funding, Tablighi Jamaat have been fairly tight-lipped according to the Guardian. Most seem to think it will be Saudi-funded. Haven't seen any evidence that it will be funded by taxpayers.

I suggest we all worry about this when those behind it manage to get their act together sufficiently to submit a planning application...then if you wish, you can make an objection.

ruty · 10/09/2007 14:47

see that would be lovely Blu. I do hope if such a building gets built all are welcome to go in and sip mint tea.

mixedmama · 10/09/2007 14:48

Well I am Muslim and I live in East London. Personally, I would prefer to see smaller more independant mosques. I feel they are much more welcoming and feel much more comfortable there. I will be honest I dont go to mosques that often but prefer to go to one that is predominately run by people from my own background as a certain amount of culture goes with religion.

I prefer to be in a smaller place run by people who care a great deal about their community, not to say the people who run larger ones dont but I fail to see how you can be so large and not political.

I think the money would be much better invested in smaller establishments.

Blandmum · 10/09/2007 14:54

i wouldn't worry about the mosque.

I would worry a bit about where the money was coming from. I'd be happy if the money was from an Islamic organisation. I wouldn't be so happy if the money came from an Islamist organisation.

fuzzywuzzy · 10/09/2007 14:59

The money comes from worshippers, I live pretty near there as it happens, and planning permission was given sort of then rescinded then blah.

The money comes from worshippers not some fantasy warlords in the middle east.

The Tableeghi Jammat lot actually go round the world talking about islam, and teaching muslims to worship ie how to pray salat, to fast, how to distribute zakat (the compulsory charity a muslim must pay) the reason behind the pillars of Islam.

An imam who knows dh, related a rather amusing story, a muslim lad recently got into trouble for doing the things a lot of teenagers are doing recently, the policeman who spoke to him, suggested he go to the mosque in bolton, to get back on the straight and narrow. Policeman wasn't muslim as far as we know, just a normal east end bloke who could see the good these places do as apposed the supposedly hotbed of terrorism the media would like it to be.

fuzzywuzzy · 10/09/2007 15:01

It's not meant to be just a mosque tho, it's supposed to be a centre of learning, they want to attach educational facilities to it, ie libraries classes, eventually.....

eleusis · 10/09/2007 15:05

Custy, I was just kidding earlier. Should have typed a ""

CrookshanksinJimmyChoos · 10/09/2007 15:09

Salaam Fuzzy - all geared up for Ramadan?

Blu · 10/09/2007 15:18

Article in The new Statesman - which suggests that it isn't TJ as much as other groups which have infiltrated TJ which are potentially cause for concern, and that if so many young people do spend some time involved, then it is hardly surprising that, for example, 7 out of 23 suspects for the London July bombings had been members - that would be a lower ratio than the one suggested in this article:

"Watch this grass-roots group carefully
Ziauddin Sardar

Published 04 September

1 comment Print version Listen RSS
A few weeks ago, a group of men knocked on my door. The three adults had large and unruly beards and wore shalwar kameez, the national dress of Pakistan. The two teenage boys accompanying them, in jeans and T-shirts, were in the initial stages of growing their beards. They wanted to know if I was regular with my prayers and if I knew how to recite the Koran correctly. Then they invited me to join them on their mission to "teach Muslims the correct way of performing their prayers".

The group belongs to Tablighi Jamaat, the mother of all grass-roots Islamic movements. It is now seen as the common link between several Muslims alleged to be involved in plans to blow up transatlantic airliners. Most British Muslims find it difficult to believe that the Tablighis, widely acknowledged as apolitical and harmless, could be implicated in such dastardly designs.

The Tablighi Jamaat was established in India in 1926 by Mawlana Muhammad Ilyas (1885-1944), a puritan, religious scholar. Devoted largely to the business of preaching, it has millions of followers in the Muslim world and the west. The Jamaat's annual conventions in Raiwind, Pakistan, and Tongi, Bangladesh, attract more than a million members from all over the world. At the meeting, everyone dresses in the same simple Pakistani dress and lives as austerely as possible.

The teachings of the organisation are based on "six points". Every Muslim must be able to make a correct declaration of faith, know how to perform ritual prayers correctly, inculcate a habit of remembering God, respect other Muslims, behave honestly and decently and should spend some time in passing on this message to other Muslims. These points form the core of Jamaat's textbook, Tablighi Nisab (Tablighi Curriculum), which is the only book the Tablighis ever read. Members are discouraged from asking questions, arguing, or making political comments. They are organised into mobile units and sent out to target Muslims lacking in faith. The object of the exercise is to lure the weak ones into the mosque, where they can be repeatedly subjected to the "six points" programme.

I became a Tablighi for a few days during my youth. Indeed, most young Muslims in Britain have spent some time "going out on Tabligh". It is difficult not to. The Tablighi are ubiquitous, do not give up easily and their simple message resonates with nascent minds. The secret of their success lies in direct, personal appeals and the emphasis on rituals. That is why they are most successful among the young.

But there are other reasons for the striking success of the Tablighis. They operate as a network, which changes constantly, and are not interested in developing permanent institutional structures. They shun all publicity and work quietly. The members are dedicated, highly motivated and spend their own resources for the work of the Jamaat. They have been encouraged by governments both in the Muslim world and the west, particularly as a counter balance to more politically active segments of the Islamic movements.

Conventionally, the Tablighis are seen as an unchanging, conservative, benign, global network of simple preachers. This, I think, is a serious mistake. Organisations do not remain static. Simply because Tablighi Jamaat has followed exactly the same course for decades, no one thinks it can change. It has. Drastically.

To begin with, there is not one but two Tablighi Jamaats. A breakaway group emerged in the mid-1990s and added a seventh point to the Jamaat's programme: jihad in Pakistan and abroad. In October 1995, a group of Tablighi soldiers from the Pakistani army were involved in a plot to overthrow Benazir Bhutto, the then prime minister. The plot was discovered; and Bhutto purged the army, sending a string of Tablighi officers into early retirement. But the new faction, for all intents and purposes quite indistinguishable from the old one, went on to establish its headquarters in the northern Punjab town of Taxila, from where it advocates active involvement in politics and jihad.

But even the old Jamaat is not what it used to be. It has been infiltrated by groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba, the banned organisation responsible for sectarian violence in Pakistan. Office-holders in Lashkar-e-Toiba, and other militant organisations such as Harkat-ul-Ansar, openly boast that they recruit their volunteers from the Tablighi Jamaat. This doesn't surprise me. An unquestioning mind, which is what the Tablighi tends to produce, can easily be redirected towards nefarious ends.

So the Tablighis are not as harmless as most Muslims seem to think. The world has changed; and the Tablighi Jamaat has changed with it. The teenagers who knocked at my door may end up learning more than simply how to say their prayers correctly. We need to look at the Tablighis much more critically and see just what they are teaching our youth."

MotherofZ · 10/09/2007 15:48

I think the issue here is that most people seem to think the Mosque (if built) will be a breading ground for terrorist. People forget that the majority of Muslims citizens are peaceful and law abiding people and it is the extreme minority who make the headlines.

Blu · 10/09/2007 15:51

My concern would still be a huge building and it's impact in terms of people, traffic etc - exactly all the things that planning procedure is there to deal with. And the same as if it were an swimming pool or IKEA. Blimey - you can't get down the A23 on a Sunday for the crowds going to IKEA. And not even a nice mint tea when you get there.

Blandmum · 10/09/2007 15:53

Nice meatballs though

eleusis · 10/09/2007 17:15

Yuck. Horrible meatballs.

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