Donation of organs 'should be automatic' upon death

[LittleLupin]

Story here

"People should automatically have their organs removed for transplant after they die unless they opted out while alive, Britain's most senior doctor is expected to say tomorrow in his annual report."

Sounds like a good idea to me.

So how would you deal with hospitals inevitably making mistakes and thinking someone has NOT opted out when they have, Squonk?

Nothing is foolproof but the register can be held in the same way as the current one (ie responsibility outside the hospital) with bi-annual letters sent to all people asking them to check their wishes are registered and listing their status- and the existing system of forms on driving licence forms, GP surgery forms etc

hmm... good question.

will need to ponder on that one a bit more.

Do you know how these kind of mistakes are dealt with at the moment?

Message withdrawn

Squonk, do you mean mistakes caused by hospital admin? Well, several thousand patients every year die as a result of errors - think National Patient Safety Agency brought out latest stats the other day. Admin is often a factor - patients with similar names mixed up so one gets the other's medication, or surgery. Or patients who are allergic to penicilin are given penicillin. I'm not sure off the top of my head how many are to do with mixed up records/not being able to find records but I remember it's a significant proportion. And that's only the worst cases where people die as a result...

Obviously you have to take that in the context of millions of people using the NHS, though, it's a relatively small percentage of all medical episodes that involve serious errors.

dont all hospital patients wear red wrist bands if any allergies to medication? is that just a harefield then?

Different hospitals use different colours for different purposes so there are lots of accidents when staff get confused. Especially as doctors and nurses move around a lot - junior docs every six months.

Maybe Harefield has a particularly good system because obv. it is terribly important given the nature of their work, dunno.

(Misdee, I'm all in favour of organ donation, btw, not meaning to put anyone off, just anti presumed consent.)

i didnt know different hospital had duifferent systems. at harefield, peter has a red band on his arm with all his meds he is allergic to written off. before any drugs are given they check his sheet by the door, his wristband for hospital #, name DOB and red band as well.

I'm not against donation but I am worried that eventually concsiously or unconsciously the fact that someone's organs are automatically potentially up for grabs may play a part in a doctor's decision in how they treat someone.

I already know from experience that the elderly get treated quite differently and have in fact heard a dr talk about not giving an old person near death morphine for pain because it was a waste of money because they were not going to get better.

Say what you like about protocol in hospitals at the end of the day they are staffed by human beings who can make mistakes and bad decisions.

loobee you should have oput in a complaint about that as well.

at the end of the day, i like to belive in the good in people and that includes medical staff.

i dont like to think of organs being 'up for grabs', i think of them as a gift, one which a family makes available at a time of their deepest grief. i do think opt out should be in place as so many people are for organ donation (i belive its 90%) but one 1 in 4 people are registered for organ donation. that is a big big difference in numbers.

People who are strongly against organ donation wil lremove their names. i think it will be a case of period of adjustment, then we will get used to it.

I don;t entirely ee how peoplemaking mistakes is particularly relevant to opting in/out of organ donation. People are not going to not make the mistake based on whether you subsequently donate your organs or not. I can see how some people might think doctors will satrt making bad decisions becasue of the organ donation issue but generally the doctors treating the patient are nothing to do with the organ donor programme if I'm correct. It's not like they have a patient lines up in the next room waiting for the organ and this enormous conflict of interests like in the films. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I guess like Misdee, my experiences of the medical profession in life or death situations have been excellent and I have always felt that they would fight for the life of their patient as long as it was viable and sometimes even beyond inteh case of my 84 yr old terminally ill grandfather.

I still can't believe it's permitted for families to go against the wishes of a grown adult and his/her wish to donate his/her organs.

only if they feel 'strongly' expat.

I don't think they should be allowed to at all, though, Misdee, if the person was an adult of sound mind when he/she decided to join the donor register.

I would be so pissed off if my family denied someone the chance at life AND did not honour my wishes and choice to do what I wished with MY body because they felt 'strongly'.

They know this, too.

I'm not going to need it where I'm going, someone needs it now, let them have it.

"Don't the family get to choose WHEN the machines are turned off though? Person may still look alive but the family have got a grip on the idea that they are brain dead and say @yes' to machine being turned off."

I don't think its their ultimate decision as to 'when'

I think this is a good idea but would have to be carefully implemented. We had a discussion about this quite recently - and a talk about starting organ donation discussions. The lecturer gave us a statistic saying that something like 90% of people when questioned said that they would donate their organs but only 50% were registered.
I think brain stem death is a very difficult concept to get round, my friend who was brain dead was blinking, and chewing on her ET tube the day before she died.
She donated her kidneys and corneas and I think it helped her parents a lot knowing that she helped someone.

Naily - your job sounds so interesting

I agree with whoever it was said that the problematic issue would be the 'bodies belong to the state' aspect.

I would be among the opt-outs, personally, just like I have chosen not to have a donor-card in the current system. For me the only troublesome aspect of a change would be that ownership thing. But it wouldn't make any difference to me, iyswim.

smurfgirls, its actually around only 23% that are actually registered.

its not a real risk [sighs]

most deaths arent suitable for organ donation anyway. you have to be brain dead.

i'm off to bed, am emoptionally drained on this subject. am praying my phone doesnt ring tonight.

Haven't had chance to read the whole thread.

I carry a donor card & everyone knows what I would want BUT I see that as a gift, and if that wasn't respected and there was an opt out system then I'd opt out. I wonder if there are many people who think like that??

Witholding care would generally cause the organs to fail before the person is brain dead so would be pretty pointless really.

Night Misdee.

An opt-out system has the advantage of forcing people to declare their position. Obviously, a lot of people do have religious objections. But that cuts both ways. I think if you opt out, you shouldn't be eligible to go on waiting lists yourself if you are found to need a transplant.

If it's an opt-in system, it's easy enough to say you just never got around to filling in the card.

Witholding care would not result in organs suitable for donation.The medical profession are in the business of preserving life and to think anything else would be an insult to them. I still think that once this system had been in place for years it would help and change in our attitude to bereavement.Also more transplants would enable the surgery and aftercare to be perfected which would be great