Donation of organs 'should be automatic' upon death

[LittleLupin]

Story here

"People should automatically have their organs removed for transplant after they die unless they opted out while alive, Britain's most senior doctor is expected to say tomorrow in his annual report."

Sounds like a good idea to me.

eh?

how does it do that?

there are all sorts of problems post transplant, agree

but if you are looking at someone in heart faliure, vs someone with a new heart-assuming it all goes smoothly, that is a real difference being made to someone's life.

transplants do make a massive difference to a lot of people. Its not a cure-all, no, but compared to the options without a transplant, surely its a much better alternative?

re the eyes, I thought they didn't take eyes, just corneas, which is not disfiguring? Am I wrong?

as i am going to be cremated ANYWAY, cannot see me caring about eyes, but hey.

Oh yes Filly absolutely, a much better alternative - all I'm saying is people often have the misconception that you get a new organ - fabbo - all is hunkydory.

Filly it does bring a whole new set of problems. Anti rejection drugs have awful side effects, IF they suit you. then there is rejection (usually within the first year) If not the first year then very likely within the next 3 years.

Problems with being so immuno suppressed does bring alot of problems unluckily for alot of transplant patients.

I think most transplant units do now explain the risks and pitfalls and do explain properly it is not a cure and your problems are not going to go away. It has to be seen as an extention to your life not the key to a normal one imo

sagger, when my sister had her transplant people really believed she would live until her 70's ffs

yes, I agree that it should be automatic. I have signed up to the donor register. people who want to can opt out. I would like to err on the side of saving/improving a life over perhaps using a piece of a person who maybe wouldn't have wished it when alive.

I agree
DP was horrified about organ donation when I said I would donate any organs mine or the kids if anything happened.
HE said no way

Then our dd was dx'd with a heart condition. WE saw kids waiting for transplant, thankfully our dd seems to have avoided serious issues
But now dp is def a heart donor.

Whilst I agree that it seems such a waste to not use these organs to say that someone's body is only an empty vessel surely shows a lack of experience of a loved one dying? And to say children should be treated differently to adults - at what age do you think you stop being a child? My brother died at 24 and he was still very much my parents child. My brother was on the emergency transplant list but his organs failed before he could get a heart/lung transplant, (at Harefield). Therefore he could not donate his organs anyway, but I know if my parents had been told they had to donate his organs they would have committed murder before anybody took anything away against their wishes.

You know how protective you can be of your children, imagine going through months of illness, operations and heartache - all you want to do is protect them, just because they have died doesn't mean this stops. You just don't want them to go through any-more, you want to protect them from any-more "pain" and rest in peace.

I think the only way forward is for people to discuss their wishes with their parents or next of kin, when they are fit and well - do not leave it until you become ill as no-one wants to mention dying at that point. If my brother had been able to donate his organs and had made it clear that that is what he wanted then my parents may have been able to go through with this, but please don't criticise people for not being able to make this gift until you understand the emotions involved at this time.

Not a good idea. Think about how devastated the parents at Alder Hey and the other children's hospitals were when they discovered doctors had been harvesting their organs. Maybe if they'd been asked properly the parents would have said 'yes' but to take that choice away from them would be very traumatic. If someone you love has been taken away, for officialdom to then remove the last vestiges of control you have over the rituals of death would be appalling.

Could also affect, even subconsciously, the decisions medical staff make about life support and when to turn machines off.

Control over your own body is THE fundamental human right from which all others flow. Otherwise we might as well make rape within marriage legal again. And slavery. And if you are unconscious or dying your family are the best advocates for you. Not perfect, but the best we have.

There are other ways to improve transplant rates. (One of the big factors has been the increased rate of seatbelt use among car passengers and drivers - used to get a load of organs from people killed in crashes. Gruesome but true).

Doctors involved in Alder Hey and the other children's hospitals were harvesting organs for research, btw, not transplant, but it raises the same ethical issues around consent.

Fio - it that was the case we'd all be in the queue.

Seriously though - you do still have control over your own body. You opt out.

The children thing is difficult - parents of a possible donor want to protect them - parents of a possible recipient want to protect them too.

I carry an organ donor card too, and it is frustrating the fact my next of kin could override my wishes - to overcome this, I have made it clear to all my family and my DH that I am in favour of organ donations. I recently got a pamphlet through from the Blood Donor Service, and according to that few religions object to organ donation. It seems perfectly logical to me. As I understand it (please any professional medics correct me if I am wrong) but it is required that 2 independent doctors are needed to certify brain death to ensure that no mistakes are made. Sadly it is still not a 100% robust system, there is still room for human error. But it's the best system we have at the moment. I would be in favour of an opt out rather than an opt in system. At the end of day one family's tragedy could be turned into another's miracle.
Doctors definitely need to be educated better to treat such decisions more sensitively - am [shocked] over those two policemen.

Helennn, did your brother have CF?

I'm all for automatic donation. I was horrified to find out that DH could revoke my wish to donate organs, if it came to that (not that he would).

I can't see a situation where doctors are hanging about intensive care units, scavenging bodies. I mean, someone would have to be obviously brain dead to even think about it?

highlander

Fio - no, my brother had a blood clotting disorder which caused his lungs to fill with blood clots. He had an operation to clear them which did not work, which is why he then needed a transplant. He died only the day after his failed operation so there wasn't much chance of a transplant anyway, .

oh your poor brother helenm that sounds awful

do think my experience may be coloured slightly by fact that ds had (very minor, very easily resolved) heart probs at birth.

god that was scary.

DH says that since Alderhay his juniors are way too frightened to even broach the subject with relatives.

helenn, (I'm floo by the way) My brother died of CF he was on the transplant list for a heart and lung transplant, he didn't get one and died. Maybe that is why I feel bodies are a vessel and when we die we have no need for our organs ... so why not transplant your organs for the use of others. I will not apologise for feeling that our bodies are vessels, that is my opinion, but maybe loosing my brother has made me cynical.

Helen - that sounds dreadful. And lazymoo - I'm sorry that your brother didn't get his transplant.

I'm coming at this from a selfish point of view too. dd was considered for transplant as a baby - as it turned out despite being too sick (and too small) to be listed, she survived but she may need one in the eventually. I'm hopeful that if ever the time comes there will be more organs available.

There are a whole generation of children growing up now who will need organs in the future. Children are surviving longer with CF, heart and liver problems for example, but aren't 'fixed'. The 'waiting' list will get ever longer and more people will die whilst waiting.

lazymoo, my sister had CF too. She got a heart and lung transplanted when she was 18 but sadly died at 21. She had her transplant at papworth

I am sorry if I am sounding anti transplant btw, i am not at all. i just think the issue is more complex and that article is just too wishy washy

Agree with Fio - opt out would be a great system but only if people were properly informed and well educated about their choices.

You don't sound anti Fio. It's so complex isn't it and people should have real, informed choice.

Donors and recipients.