Are judges to be trusted?

[Spandex]

Whaaaaat?

Because this takes the biscuit!

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There are librarians and law librarians.

i never said she deserved it spandex. ive said the judge comes under fire when all he has done is taken the facts of this case as it was presented to him and sentenced accordingly..and using the old chestnut of 'oh well she deserved then coz of miniskirt ect ect' is pointless imo

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at cod

No-one has suggested that. People have pointed out that it can be hard to tell the age of a girl. They have also pointed out that there is no suggestion of coercion in this case. No-one has said he should not have been convicted, or that it shouldn't be a crime to have sex with underage girls. It should, it is, and he was convicted.

i only got a 2:1 in my law degree

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The 'she deserved it' is much more commonly used when someone has FORCED sex onto someone, rather than this case, where with hindsight he should have checked her age, and walked away, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Presumably the fact she is 10 is the reason he pleaded guilty, and will never be able to work in certain jobs.

The tabloids do a great job in stigmatising people - a headline of 'Man rapes 10 year old, let out of jail free' can be interpreted so many ways.

i said that mens rea WASN'T relevant for deciding criminality in this case, it was statutory rape

they obviously took into account the same factors that you would take into account when deciding on mens rea, when looking at what a suitable sentence was however

which is I think what I said (albeit cackhandedly)

Elesbelles, there is no evidence that he didn't know she was underage. He asked her her age (which indicates that he was unsure) and she said "does it matter?", which should have made him wary. I suspect (and I have to confess that I don't know) that his shock was at just how young she was, not necessarily that she was under 16.

Absolutely, Freckle. And you don't even have a law degree.

But none of what you say Freckle is obliged by law or is it?

Sorry, Spandex, what isn't obliged by law?

His wariness of her age. And then his apparent shock. Maybe 10 years of age is shocking as opposed to 14 or whatever he thought.

If the law says that, if you have sex with an underage child, you are committing an offence, then yes, wariness of age is something which is obliged by law. This chap was clearly aware that the child might not be the age she appeared (else why ask her age?), yet accepted a non-answer ("does it matter?") and went ahead.

As I said before, perhaps other men will be more cautious about having sex with a child who is or whom they think might be underage.

But that doesn't seem to have been an issue in this case - his wariness of her age? Why?

so feckle, when you first met your dp/dh you didnt ask his age? and he didnt ask yours? isnt that a general question when your chatting up or getting chatted up? does not mean your asking because you want to have sex with them...well not in my case it isnt anyway!! and as i have said (a boringly amount of times now) im glad he was prosecuted and im glad the law is in place. but i think the authorities are mostly to blame for not caring for her properly in the first place. lets not forget though this man was 20 years old fgs 20!! i dare you to ask any 20 yr old if he asks for ID BEFORE he takes up an offer.

and another pathetic comment from spandex which i shall ignore!

Oh elesbelles, what is it with you that you have to get so negative and make derogatory comments? Can you not contribute to a discussion without resorting to that kind of thing? Dearie me. Do you think you are of a superior species or something?

Please go and read the Mumsnet philosophy again.

Thank you.

if the cap fits and all that! (sorry to keep using old chestnuts like that)

You do sound like such a nice person.

Shame you feel the need to be obnoxious.

By Spandex on Tue 26-Jun-07 17:06:06
Ah well, if she went looking for a man then she's to blame. She was probably wearing a mini skirt too. What on earth could she expect then? A responsible adult - even a redblooded lusty man - to take her to one side and make sure she got home ok?

and

By Spandex on Tue 26-Jun-07 21:11:51
Absolutely, Freckle. And you don't even have a law degree.

That's obnoxious?

I'm not sure you understand my meaning of the first quote you mentioned.

And, Freckle doesn't have a law degree. And? Your point is?

You silly old thing you.

Actually I do. But you don't need one to come to these conclusions.

Elesbelles, no I didn't ask my dh's age when I first met him. It was some considerable time into our relationship when age was discussed - but then we were both in our 30s, so no danger that I would corrupt the poor innocent.

I think asking a girl's age on the first occasion you meet and you then go on to have sex is fairly indicative of a doubt as to whether she was underage or not.