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Unmarried mother wins access to Widowed Parents Allowance

27 replies

FlippyNeck · 30/08/2018 12:47

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45355028#

I've been waiting for this ruling and I'm delighted to see that the Supreme Court have made their judgement in Siobhan McLaughlin's favour. Huge respect to her for fighting this all the way, whilst grieving her partner and caring for her children.

I think so many people wouldn't realise that they would be in a similar position if their partner died and they weren't married. Like me. It it grossly unfair that this benefit is based on the deceased's NI contributions - why should being married or not, affect a benefit that is there to support children?

Any MN legal eagles around who can give any insight to what this will mean for others in the same situation, both historically (i.e. will backdated claims be valid) and now, for new claims?

OP posts:
lozster · 31/08/2018 08:34

You got here before me. Great ruling for the CHILD and for fairness, compassion and logic.

wafflyversatile · 31/08/2018 08:42

I think this might be what my brothers partner missed out on. It was in Scotland and particularly cruel. From what i could gather they seemed to take the line that if you told people you were married or planned to marry they would give you it. They spoke to 2 people who knew them without telling them why asking if they thought they were married. Very weird and upsetting. I hope the law changes soon.

TooTrueToBeGood · 31/08/2018 08:44

It's a great decision and I'm sure nobody with any soul begrudges her and her kids the decision. If i understand correctly though, this allowance was scrapped last year. Has it been replaced by anything?

wafflyversatile · 31/08/2018 08:44

We said the same as you. If it exists to support children then what difference does it make if the deceased was married to the other parent or not.

TooTrueToBeGood · 31/08/2018 08:47

Answering my own question. Looks like it was replaced by this:
www.gov.uk/bereavement-support-payment

Seems very restrictive though limiting it to deaths attributable to work-related injury or illness.

sonlypuppyfat · 31/08/2018 08:53

Surely you are only a widow if you were married

dinosaurkisses · 31/08/2018 08:59

I was a bit Hmm when I first heard about this, but having seen that it was based on her DP’s NI contributions and it’s designed to help support the children, I think it’s a good thing.

The benefit name should change though so people aren’t put off applying because they think they aren’t technically a widow.

TooTrueToBeGood · 31/08/2018 09:04

Surely you are only a widow if you were married

Surely a caring society supports its citizens based on need rather than pedantics.

Sofabitch · 31/08/2018 09:09

I disagree with the decision. Whilst its really shitty for those involved. I really feel if you want the legal protections of marriage then you should get married.

Where does this leave families with several children with different mothers. Which person is entitled to claim? Surely all the children should be equally looked after in this case.

Perhaps the total NI contributions of a deceased person should be paid as child maintence to each of their children or left in trust for their children until older.

But as far as partnerships go getting a relationship recognised in the eyes of the law without formally announcing it opens a shit ton of doors for the law to go crazy.

SD1978 · 31/08/2018 09:17

@Sofabitch- I agree. With multiple partners and multiple blended families- the money would be better as a payment for the kids, not a spouse. Seems unfair that you can have 4 kids with one woman, but marry another and they have the entitlement.

wafflyversatile · 31/08/2018 09:19

If a law is shitty then it should be challenged and changed.

CherryChatsworth · 31/08/2018 10:09

I agree with Sofa. If you want the benefits and protections of marriage then you get married. It was a 'benefit' for those who were married and they weren't

However having said that of course I'm pleased she got it, for her and their children. Why wouldn't anyone be? Much respect to her.

wafflyversatile · 31/08/2018 10:40

But as far as partnerships go getting a relationship recognised in the eyes of the law without formally announcing it opens a shit ton of doors for the law to go crazy.

If the law is designed to support the parent left behind to bring up their child then the the relationship you can use is both having parent relationships with the child.

lucydogz · 31/08/2018 11:39

Totally agree with sofa. If you want the benefits of marriage get married. Plus, it's unworkable

Xenia · 31/08/2018 12:54

The decision is not that she gets the money. It is just a declaration the state ought to change the law. It looks from the link above as if the particular benefit has gone now anyway and replaced with a different thing.

A lot of people want to keep the legal distinction between married and otherwise and plenty of women choose not to marry to protect their assets for their chidlren from a husband from a husband on divorce. It is not as straight forward as we should rush to give the unmarried the same rights as the married.

Perhaps the best lesson is never rely on men nor on the state for money as you will probably come unstuck.

FlippyNeck · 31/08/2018 14:56

Sorry, yes Xenia, you're right, she can't access the benefit, but has won the judgement saying that the law breaches human rights.

A few points to sofabitch, SD1978 and lucydogz:

This is a contributory benefit, it is paid based on the NI contributions of the deceased - my partner worked for over 40 years and had a full record of contributions. He died before reaching pensionable age. We're not looking for the 'benefits of marriage' we're looking for the benefits that partners accrued throughout their working life.

This benefit was originally created to support children. Some other countries provide a children's pension rather than a pension to the surviving partner/spouse, which makes much more sense. When it was created, society was very different and almost all couples who could benefit were married. Now almost 50% of children are born to parents who aren't married. Other legislation and benefits take this societal change into account - there are some benefits that you can't access if your spouse or 'person you live with as a spouse' is working for example. It's inconsistent.

A grieving child and family faces no fewer difficulties because their parents weren't married. The child has no power in this situation, they don't decide what their parents do.

The government/DWP were advised in the past that this should change and unmarried parents should be able to access the benefit for their children. Iain Duncan Smith refused to implement it against advice, even though the situation is incompatible with the 'Family Test', introduced by the same Tory government in 2014.

The recent cuts to the benefit (which are also wrong IMHO!) are calculated to save the government £100m a year. Implementing the benefit for all bereaved families would cost around £26m a year, so the government would still be saving money - profiting from the NI contributions of deceased parents. It's a scandal.

If both parents died, even if they were married and had paid full NI contributions, their children couldn't access this benefit.

Partners could be together for years as a family. Someone could get married days before they died and not have a full record of contributions, but their family would be able to claim.

At the end of the day, this is money for CHILDREN, which can support them and their families when they've prematurely lost a parent. Think about the long term affect of this, and the outcomes on that child as an adult. Child loses parent, surviving parent has to work more hours/move house/cut back/whatever and may not be able to spend time with and support their child, when both are going through a hugely traumatic experience.

It's heartless to say that children shouldn't be able to access a benefit that their dead parent has already contributed to.

OP posts:
sonlypuppyfat · 31/08/2018 17:19

It costs less than £100 to get married, if you are buying a house and having children why not just get married and save yourself from all this stress

wafflyversatile · 31/08/2018 17:32

But it shouldn't be based on whether you are married or single or divorced. It shouldn't be based on old-fashioned morality. It should be based on the realities of the UK in 2018 and the fact a child's parent has died.

Doesn't matter now anyway as it's been replaced with something even shitter.

wafflyversatile · 31/08/2018 17:34

Also well said Flippy.

YeTalkShiteHen · 31/08/2018 17:37

If you want the benefits of marriage get married

If you claim benefits, you’re treated as a couple whether married or not. So either, unmarried couples shouldn’t have to make joint claims OR we could just move into the 21st century.

sonlypuppyfat · 31/08/2018 17:55

What about the women with kids with every Tom Dick and Harry

YeTalkShiteHen · 31/08/2018 17:56

sonlypuppyfat what about them?

Timeforabiscuit · 31/08/2018 20:43

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Timeforabiscuit · 31/08/2018 20:47

Speaking as a bastard myself btw, my mothers divorce couldnt get through until 5 years had passed (she was abandonded), mum met my dad and the biological clock went tick tock, 3 years later my dad was dead from a brain tumour.

Fortunately they married just before he died, as it was a long illness. But nice to know that some people think abject poverty and grief are what children born out of wedlock deserve.

Xenia · 01/09/2018 09:24

NI isn't really a contribution, however. It is not set aside in a separate fund. You can pay into NI (as I have continuously working full time since 1983 without a single break) and if I die at 66 before my age 67 state pension I don't get a penny back. We don't have a separate contributory fund we "pay into". Instead the state takes huge amounts of our wages in taxes and wastes them and spends much more money than it takes in to boot.

Some of those of us wanting the legal effect of marriage to be large (as it is) simply want both men and women to work full time when babies come so that women and men financially protect themselves rather than relying on a spouse or the state for money.

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