Anyone been following the Jordan Burling death case *warning, distressing*

[SealSong]

Has anyone been following this baffling and tragic case?
Mother and Grandmother have been convicted of manslaughter today.
Jordan aged 18 died at home, emaciated and with bed sores, having had no medical treatment.

Details of the court case in here - warning contains very distressing details.

I am struggling to understand how this could have happened. How the mother and grandmother could have failed to get medical attention, and also how Jordan just gave up and wasted away, when there were no apparent special needs, mental illness or specific health problems (as far as is known). Although surely he must have had some kind of undiagnosed mental illness or something.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a thread on Mumsnet about this case, it has been in national news, but not very high priority I suppose.

One of the strangest and saddest cases I have ever heard of.

Home education as such isn't the problem. But being able to say "From now on I will be home-educating my child" and to have no inspections whatsoever IS a problem. If parents are doing a good job in that respect (many are) that's great, they don't need to fear an inspection. But cases of abuse and neglect might well be detected if inspections were statutory. Belt and braces, surely? Education authority AND social services.

Agree with you completely that abuse can happen whether the child is home-educated or not.

And yes, Jordan Burling, Daniel Pelka, Baby P, Victoria Climbie, etc etc could all have been saved if various people (relatives, neighbours) had spoken up instead of taking the view "This ain't my business." Abuse and neglect should be EVERYBODY'S business!

I think it would be easy to blame HE in this case but I do believe he was already being let down before he was pulled out of school and his family pulling him out should have rung alarm bells with the LEA and Social Services. It is so important that the agencies all work together and this has been an issue time and time again.

I home ed and would happily have an annual check BUT that needs to be done by someone who understands home ed and that it doesn’t look like school and that children won’t necessarily be at the same educational level as a child their age in school(eg my 5 year old isn’t reading yet, or my boys older child who is academically ahead of schooled peers). There is mistrust of the LEA in the home ed world and having heard stories I understand why. I would object to social services checking on us though NorfolkRabbit unless every single family in the UK was also checked.

We are assumed to be good pet owners, RSPCA do not annually monitor us or home check (unless concerns are raised).

We are assumed to be law abiding citizens, the police do not annually monitor us or do home check (unless concerns are raised).

We are assumed to be good parents, social services do not annually visit us or do home checks (unless concerns are raised)

Home Educating parents legally should be assumed to being good parents too, do why would they need to be annually monitored and have home checks without concerns or evidence there is a problem?

Even school children are not monitored by OFSTED on an individual basis and neither should they be. In fact, such monitoring is prohibited. (School inspection handbook p. 81. Inspectors should not report separately on small numbers (typically fewer than five) where individual pupils could be identified.)

why so against inspection??

if you look at cases of neglect etcalot t of the children are taken out of school/nursery

yes i know DP was at school but many miss or get taken out,that should ring alarm bells and followed up

If there is asd in the picture then I have sympathy for the situation the family must have found themselves in. People - and entire families who have asd - usually find it very difficult to intergrate into society, access education and healthcare/social care etc. It’s also scarily easy to be misjudged by neighbours and the local yobs pick up on this and target you. You end up feeling paranoid and become isolated and insular. This has happened to us, but we have the intelligence and resources to seek appropriate help, albeit privately. The nhs don’t give a shit about people with asd, so we slip well and truly through the net.

This whole family appear to be struggling for whatever reason and the dad has done what a lot of men do and just abdicated responsibility.

If the young chap himself has asd then it might be the reason why he was out of school and refusing food or help.

Loopylass - When children are in school, their health and wellbeing is being monitored (in a low key way) almost daily throughout the school year. Every teacher has a responsibility for safeguarding, and should report any concerns or issues they become aware of.

For HE children, there appear to be no checks at all, that's the difference.

I don't think that HE parents should be placed under greater suspicion than any other parents, but there should be some mechanism for checking on HE children, just as there is for children who attend school.

I guess the whole subject of home education is rather fraught.

The cases of hideous neglect ( eg Daniel Pelka) where he was attending school and yet was abandoned are absolutely mind blowing. It shows me how far Primary education has strayed from what is important.

However I believe children are safer in a system than out of it. At the very least regular unannounced checks should be made.

If there is asd in the picture then I have sympathy for the situation the family must have found themselves in

WHAT?

They thought starving a teenager and photographing him in a nappy was acceptable?

HOW CAN THAT BE

The problem with unannounced visits petrolpump is that most home ed families I know are usually not at home!

they cant be out all the time, especially in winter.

well they would have to go back and catch them when in

i very much doubt if a child is being neglected or abused that they are the sought of parents that go to parks/activitys often so hopefully would be able to catch them in

We are out a lot of the time all year around.

As I have said above I would have no issue with an annual inspection, but I do have an issue with being treated like I am doing something wrong purely because we chose not to send our children to school.

I agree with that flopsy, it’s the children who never go anywhere that we need to worry about. But then I bet those parents who are doing something wrongn would just ignore the door anyway.

I’d not heard of this case until just seeing this thread now.

I imagine there will be a serious case review.

Dysfunctional families like this shouldn’t go off the radar.

but they do....and they're good at it. Avoiding visits, moving around a lot.
Good liars.

It's very easy for extremely dysfunctional situations to become normalised for some families. Particularly in those families with intellectual disabilities, where there is abuse but even in others.

Because it's a slow process. It doesn't happen overnight. You only have to see threads on MN about how completely dysfunctional and abusive situations become 'normal'.

There are some really worrying posts on this thread. Posters who think people with ASC have a particular 'look' or those who wonder why a victim of abuse or neglect doesn't just 'run away'.

@Sealsong and anyone else interested I read the transcripts on here www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/uk-jordan-burling-18-died-weighing-less-than-6-stone-body-of-baby-also-found-leeds-june-2016.375972/

The worst bits have a content warning

Why did he stop eating though?

I only became aware of this yesterday, it's just awful. I just don't understand how this could happen

It wouldn't be social services checking up on you, it would be an inspector from the education dept. I agree such a person would have to be knowledgeable about the home-ed paradigm.

I find it depressing, tbh, that so many home-edders are so defensive and, it has to be said, often paranoid about any kind of authority. Yes, there can be bad experiences ( it happens in ALL walks of life.) But the wellbeing of children and teenagers is surely more important than an adult simply feeling uncomfortable?

The problem with that argument is, Dawn Cranston was assumed to be a good parent. No checks of any kind. And now her son is dead. Daniel Pelka's parents were given the benefit of the doubt. And so on.

The inspector would be there not to challenge parenting but to see that the home education being provided is of a sufficiently high standard. But if they did see evidence of abuse/neglect, that would be of help to the children, wouldn't it?

There is far too much trust placed rather lazily in parents. Where does the greatest amount of abuse take place? The home.

cheese thanks for the link. So grim

I do too, and there IS a particular look

I agree. But unfortunately nowadays some things just aren’t allowed to be true even when they are.