British woman dies in Syria

[StealthPolarBear]

she was only 26,fighting to make the world a better place

There is a fine but clear line between brave and stupid and she largely crossed it when she took up arms against the 2nd largest army of NATO on the side of a group of bandits, in a fight that is not her own, in a foreign land where she doesn't speak the language and where she would probably be sold off as a sex slave had she not dyed her hair black.
I've totally agreed with everything you've said Cote on this. The PKK are a terrorist group.
I remember one of the few intelligent things I've heard Diane Abbott say was when everybody supported our arming of the PKK, a few years back, and she was the only politician to say 'hang on a minute'.
The aim of the organisation is to create an independent Kurdistan - carving big chunks out of 3 existing countries. I don't support that, and the chaos it would cause.
The romantisation of the PKK is ridiculous, IMO.

It's a good thing to be principled and passionate but it's a stupid thing to do what she did. Far better to stay alive so that you carry on helping rather than die a pointless and totally avoidable death.

I’m confused becUse it said on the news that the group she was fighting with was “American backed”. So are the Americans backing groups which the U.K. govt would consider to be terrorists and would charge people with terrorism offences for being involved with?

Or did the Americans back them initially when they were just fighting isis? I can’t imagine either America or the U.K. supporting a group fighting the Turkish army seeing as they’re a nato member.

Kurdish forces in Syria, the YPG, have an authoritarian bent and became complicit in the genocidal policies of Assad.

This Western romanticisation of Kurdish forces while viewing Syrian rebels as Islamists is rather annoying.

She was not fighting ISIS she was fighting Tukish and FSA forces.

Turkey has supported ISIS and sadly we support Turkey. All are responsible for keeping Kurds stateless.

This woman fought for a principle against Turkey's ethnic cleansing policies that have left the Kurds stateless when historically they have lived on land thousands of years before the Turks arrived.

She was brave and principled.

Turkey has not supported ISIS that's completely ridiculous. Turkey has been targeted by ISIS and also by the PKK. Hence Turkey had a massive operation "Euphrates" to get ISIS out of northern Syria which ended shortly before their Afrin offensive.

The way Turkey has treated the Kurds in Turkey is awful, but the conduct of the YPG in Syria has also been awful.

I see she will be be made into a martyr by those she died for. How wonderfully glorious. But her family are overjoyed.

Its quite confusing as there are various organisations of Kurds fighting isis. Some in the north are doing a sterling job some such as the organisation this young woman was fighting for are linked to their own extreme communist agenda and are responsible for attacks on civilians.

I don't think her membership of Antifa shines a very positive light on her character either.. it is my opinion that they are themselves the very model of facist they claim to oppose. Antifa may claim to be fighting the good fight bit evidence is clear that they aim to bring down western democracy and fill the void will a hard left socialist authoritarian society.

One of the male fighters who returned and arrested recently turned out to have defaced churchills statue and the cenotaph in riots a decade ago... Theres more to this than just fighting ISIS

She wasn't fighting ISIS!!! ISIS have just mostly been kicked out of northern Syria, not by the Kurds but by Turkish backed Syrian rebels.

She was fighting Syrian rebels who, as well as fighting ISIS, have been fighting a genocidal dictator who, backed by Iran and Russia, has killed half a million people in five years. Is no one seeing what's going in Ghouta? A couple of days ago 15 children were killed in a school in ONE airstrike. This is what Syrian rebels are fighting.

Kurdish forces chose to co-operate with Russia and the regime, although they suffered just as much as anyone under Assad. Syrian rebels are siding with Turkey because they are reliant on her, and because they resent the YPG for turning against the revolution.

Now after siding with Russia, Russia has abandoned the Kurds in Afrin. The lesson is: don't make deals with Russia.

Anyway, I do feel sorry for this young woman, but she wasn't fighting the good fight.

Turkey has been backing ISIS, all the way. That's why they want to oust Assad. Erdogan and his family have been dealing with ISIS and its oil production.

From Newsweek:

"U.S. SAYS TURKEY IS HELPING ISIS BY BOMBING KURDS IN SYRIA"

With all due respect all-caps headlines from an American magazine, Turkey's military conflict with Kurdish armed forces that aim to take a chunk of its land for their Kurdistan project dates from decades before ISIS or even Al Qaeda and 9/11.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Turkey fighting Kurdish rebels is because they support ISIS.

I don't share others' views that she was principled. Or stupid.

She hadn't been conscripted.

She hadn't been enlisted to fight for her country.

She wouldn't have gained any personal benefit from the outcome even if "her side" had won.

One of the few pictures I've seen of her is of her posing holding a machine gun...Her intentions were pretty clear.

She went out there to fight, and to kill.

I wonder if she managed to kill anyone before she herself was killed?

I suspect she killed other people yes and she went there knowing that she would be doing so.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Turkey fighting Kurdish rebels is because they support ISIS.

And yet the facts suggest otherwise.
Turkey is among the biggest spenders in propaganda so it does not surprise me one bit the irrational Turkish support is unloading here.

Your "facts" would be what you read in UK papers, I suppose.

Mine are what I saw and lived through growing up in Turkey, fearing for people I know conscripted for military service who were sent to fight Kurdish guerillas, being searched & putting my handbag through x-ray machine at the entrance of each shopping mall, cinema, and office building for fear of PKK bombs.

Turkey has been fighting armed Kurdish guerillas for decades, a long time before ISIS was a thought in the minds of its founders, before most were even born. Turkey is still fighting PKK and its affiliates for the same reason, not because their goal is to help ISIS out.

cote I'm glad we have your sane and reasoned opinion on this thread.

We visited Eastern Turkey several years ago and totally agree with cote. The British media is incredibly biased against Turkey

Turkey has stolen land from many groups of people who have lived there long before the Turks arrived from the East. Erdogan is continuing this Ottoman Imperialism right now by invading Syria. Every few decades, Turkey's so-called borders have expanded. It has invaded and occupied a European country and Britain turned its back because of the sweeteners it receives from Turkey.

Britain is on the wrong side. We side with Saudis and Turks who subjugate women and destroy freedom and democracy. This woman gave up her security to fight for freedom.

~ MIT officials confess Turkey’s relations with ISIS and Al Nusra
Two captive officials of Turkish National Intelligence Organization (MIT), confessed about how Turkey supported ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria.
ANF NEWS DESK Tuesday, 23 Jan 2018
MIT’s Erhan Pekcetin and Aydin Gunel who were captured by HPG last year, spoke about how Turkey supported ISIS, Al Nusa and so-called Free Syrian Army. KCK released the confessions of Pekcetin and Gunel who described how MIT organized camps and trained ISIS and Al Nusra members inside Turkey. ~

Bless you counterpoint. Did you just copy/paste from a Kurdish propaganda website, saying PKK's hostages said bad things about Turkey?

"Every few decades, Turkey's so-called borders have expanded."

Like.. when? They look the same to me as when I first saw them at primary school 40 years ago.

"It has invaded and occupied a European country"

I suppose you are talking about Cyprus, which:

(1) Was certainly not a "European country" as it's nowhere near Europe and there was no EU back in 1970s.

(2) Is not part of Turkey and is not controlled by Turkey.

And the only reason why the Northern part of Cyprus is not united with the Greek South at present is that Greeks voted No in the Annan Plan reunification referendum while the Turkish side voted Yes. Not because Turkey is occupying that territory.

By the way, if your plan is to claim that Turkey was the aggressor in the 1974 Cyprus story, I suggest you read a bit about what happened there: How the junta came to power in Greece, their announced intention to unite Cyprus with Greece ("Enosis"), their coup in Cyprus that placed a pro-Enosis dictator in power, and the ethnic cleansing of Turks that started in Cyprus as a result.

Yes, quite, Turkish boarders look the same to me. Can you bring up a map to show these new Turkish territories?

yes, a bit of copy and paste there i think!

Of course I copy-pasted that's why I left the source and article date in! The * * signs don't always work.

As for the Annan Plan (briefly, to avoid derailing the thread, as attempted by PP above); it was a plan fixed to give Turkey long-term rights to Cyprus. Now, Turkey's illegal occupation of Cyprus, by some 40,000 Turkish troops, remains an illegal invasion and continues as an illegal colonization against International Laws (not that it makes much difference to Turkey to obey International Laws).

And as for Cyprus being a European country; it says more about your lack of historical knowledge when you make stupid claims such as the above. If Britain is in Europe, with its far-reaching exclusions, then so is Cyprus (and has been for thousands of years since the Greeks mapped it!).

Again, this is not about Cyprus so stop bringing up irrelevant details to sway the discussion away from the memory of this woman and the fight against Turkish expansion into Syria and ethnic cleansing of Kurds by Turkey.

"Of course I copy-pasted that's why I left the source and article date in! "

The problem is not the C/P but that your source is a Kurdish propaganda outlet and that the people it quotes are hostages of a terrorist organisation. Are you going to pretend that they are just making announcements out of their own free will, because err.. that's God's honest truth?

"Annan Plan (briefly, to avoid derailing the thread, as attempted by PP above); it was a plan fixed to give Turkey long-term rights to Cyprus."

That is a complete fabrication.

The Annan Plan tried to unite the island into one country. If it succeeded, Cyprus would be a federal state and Turkey would have had no rights to it. It failed because Greek side of Cyprus voted 'No', turned its back, and joined EU on their own. (Which must have looked like a great idea in 2008, but didn't in 2013 when their economy collapsed).

"Now, Turkey's illegal occupation of Cyprus, by some 40,000 Turkish troops, remains an illegal invasion"

Yeah, well, if you don't want the scary Turks to show up with their army on your island, don't start an ethnic cleansing of their nationals I guess Turkey could have stood aside and let it become another Sarajevo, but it didn't.

Turkey was always clear that they would stay there until the issue was resolved. And the issue is not yet resolved. It would have been, if Greek Cypriots accepted the Annan Plan and reunited the island. Then the whole island would have been part of the EU now and Turkey couldn't have a military presence anywhere on it.

"And as for Cyprus being a European country; it says more about your lack of historical knowledge when you make stupid claims such as the above. If Britain is in Europe, with its far-reaching exclusions, then so is Cyprus (and has been for thousands of years since the Greeks mapped it!)."

It actually says a lot about your prejudices.

Britain is considered to be in Europe because that is the nearest land mass to it. A quick glance at the map shows that Cyprus is far closer to Anatolia (Asia Minor) and indeed to the Middle East than Europe.

Britain is also considered to be part of Europe politically because it's in the EU (for now) but back in 1974 when Greek junta tried to annex Cyprus to Greece and ethnically cleanse the island of Turks (genocide, in other words), there was no EU so the island couldn't have been part of EU politically, either.

"Again, this is not about Cyprus so stop bringing up irrelevant details to sway the discussion away from the memory of this woman"

Um.... You are the one who brought Cyprus up by saying "It (Turkey) has invaded and occupied a European country" (Although of course it was not a "European country" until its ascension to EU in the last 15 years).

You are the one who brought Cyprus up by saying "It (Turkey) has invaded and occupied a European country" grin (Although of course it was not a "European country" until its ascension to EU in the last 15 years).

Well, clearly I didn't bring up Cyprus, but made a general comment as an example to justify what I claimed about Turkey's Neo-Ottoman Expansionist policies. You cannot have it both ways. Firstly, by your own admission to recognise Cyprus is European and then to make some ignorant convoluted argument to support whatever agenda you have in denying it is in Europe.

As i said, I don't wish to have you derail this thread with Turkish propaganda. Your views on the suitability of the Annan Plan are and were only supported by Turkey and its cronies. It would have legitimized Turkey's invasion, ethnic cleansing and continuing occupation. Those are the facts and the reason the natives of the island voted against it!

Get over it - Cyprus is in the EU and Turkey is only recognized as an illegal occupation force in Cyprus, and hence the EU.

And why does a news source become "propaganda" when it expresses something negative about Turkey? Are Kurds still not allowed a voice by Turkey? Banning their flags, their language, stopping them gaining some human rights and denying Kurds their homeland is also all labeled as propaganda by Turkey, I guess.

Why are Turkey still denying the Armenian genocide?