If people aren't owning homes how will the country afford care for the elderly?

[liltingleaf]

Saw on the news that less and less young people are getting on the housing ladder because of rising house prices.

However, I was thinking, at the same time a large proportion of people release assets from their home to be able to afford nursing care in their old age. If this cannot happen, how will people/the country afford nursing care for an increasing number of people without an asset to fund this?

As ever I suggest sons/daughters acquire Lasting Power of Attorney in Health and Welfare for the parents - it can't be got retrospectively. Otherwise, the moment they are deemed to have lost mental capacity, they are owned by the State i.e. local authority, which is generally unaccountable - it's one of the main perks of the job. So they can get your parent out of the family home and start hitting the life savings. They'll target the spouse too via Social Services: 'Oohh, wouldn't you like to move somewhere smaller? It must get chilly in the winter.'

The thing about paying for care is fine, but you never get what you ask for - care homes are in cahoots with the local council, they are basically tax collectors with kickbacks. Added to which, dead bodies save them money. By the time you realise this, you may want to get your parent back to the family home - ooops, you can't! The Council owns your parent now, they are the decision makers if your parent never granted you LPA. And they want your money, so you keep paying out the exhorbitant taxes I mean fees to subsidise the care home.

Self-funders get it worse btw because the Council is under no legal obligation to inform you if the care home is failing and indeed won't want to either. First you'll know is when you parent pitches up near dead in A&E. The Council can however stop you from moving your parent to another care home - they just cook up an allegation of abuse against the family with the cooperation of the care home itself. Don't say I didn't warn you. It's outsourcing - it's all about the money, not the vocation.

Logan's Run, methinks.

'I think people paid tax all their lives in the knowledge that the state would care for them in old age. Not fair for the govt to change the terms on them. If they'd known their houses would not benefit their kids, maybe more old people would not have bothered buying and would have blown it all on holidays when they were able to enjoy them!'

It was never an insurance plan . My mind is constantly blown by people who think the government should pay to support them for decades of economic inactivity and increasing health problems because they paid taxes and they should be able to keep any assets they have to pass on to their kids. Haahaaa! Who ever thought that was going to work?

I'm not interested in paying higher taxes so other people can inherit money they never earned.

So they can get your parent out of the family home and start hitting the life savings. They'll target the spouse too via Social Services: 'Oohh, wouldn't you like to move somewhere smaller? It must get chilly in the winter.'

But the government will not be able to rely on these assets funding care if there are very few home owners or even savings.

What will happen then?

I'm not interested in paying higher taxes so other people can inherit money they never earned.

But this is not what will be happening if there is less home ownership. I'm not bothered about inheritance. I'm bothered about elderly people actually being able to have the care they need. I don't mind higher taxes if it actually funds things like the national health, education and care for the elderly.

Sad state of affairs if older people are going to start getting blamed for not predicting they'd need care ohfortuna :(

It's very unfair on carehome self funders who have saved or sold their property, they pay for the home themselves, pay extra to subsidise the council funded residents and pay extra taxes for people's future care. How can that be right. I dont mind paying for my own care.

@lovesagain, I do take your point!
Howecer, whilst we cant predict the exact point at which we will need care we do all know that our ability to live independently and to manage in a large home will diminish as we get older
we should all as a matter of course take measures to ensure that we live in accommodation suited to the stage of life that we are in

It's very unfair on carehome self funders who have saved or sold their property
there is no way to make things totally fair, if we have social security/a safely net we inevitably create the problem of moral hazzard, there will be free riders...people who play the system.
But some cheating is better than having no safely net, having a society where you can easily end up destitute.

I'm not saying we shouldnt always strive to make things as fair as possible, just that it will never be perfect, there will always be trade offs

And if they don't want to?

I dont know what the answer is, but saying they should, or making the elderly and vulnerable feel they have to move, is very off to me. Reminds me of threads on here where people say the elderly in 2/3 bed council homes should move out.
if adjustments can't be made to an existing home then surely care home is the alternative anyway?

Not to mention sometimes illness etc just doesn't give you any warning. My aunt was fine one day, the next day we knew she'd never be coming back to her home.

By the time they're elderly, people will have become comfortable with the idea of euthanasia and consider it the responsible thing to do.

By the time they're elderly, people will have become comfortable with the idea of euthanasia and consider it the responsible thing to do.

Yikes! Horrible. To be pressurised into assisted suicide. I cannot imagine feeling more unwanted.

Certainly heading that way

Well, if opinions on here are actually representative. I hope not, though. And what message does that send out? If you are old or ill you have no worth at all? Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

'And what message does that send out? If you are old or ill you have no worth at all? Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.'

That's certainly been the case if you are ill/disabled - shocking cuts all round but no one seems bothered about that.

But this thread is about care for the elderly?

And if they don't want to?
we all have to do the responsible thing and look after out own long term best interests, even if we dont like the inconvenience in the short term
obviously move before you are elderly and vulnerable

I think you're on a wind up tbh.

If not, I'm assuming you've put yourself in a one bed studio ground floor flat? You might get seriously ill next week

My parents generation had to look after their own, or rely on neighbours for support.
It will be like this again in a couple of generations.

And if you move too soon there is no asset to appreciate unless you invest in something else.

In fact, what's the cut off? Say I agree that, in order to not be a drain, I should sell my lifelong home just in case I need care as it's the responsible thing to do. Should i do that at 60? Bearing in mind my aunt was only 63? 65? 55?

My parents generation had to look after their own, or rely on neighbours for support.
It will be like this again in a couple of generations.

Yes. Less social and geographical mobility all round. Whole families living in close vicinity. Less children moving away as they cannot afford university. Except I hope the job market adapts to fit this. Relocation would be out of the question for many.

lilting

They saw it as their responsibility, usually the womans.
My dad was great though, he'd come in from work and help to care for his mil, to give my mum a break.
They had us 3 dc too at the time.
There was nobody else to do it, so they had to get on with it.
Mum didn't work, but wasn't allowed anyway, ss wouldn't allow it at the time.

My father was a bed blocker as it was decided he was too sick to return home and Social Services were unable to find a home in the area that they could afford. Each area has a set amount that they can pay out and it's not always enough. As for their funding, well that can stop when the patients needs get less complex, as you get nearer to death your needs can get less and this can actually cause your funding to be stopped if you stop meeting the criteria. The system is flawed. My dad did eventually find a home but had to be part funded as he wasn't sick enough for continuing care. This takes all his pension all his allowances and my mum has to justify her expenses. The rest goes on care.

gilly But we moved away from both our home towns. Met at university. We don't have family near us. My D.C. want to go to university and are looking at careers that will require some geographical mobility. We'll retire later in life too.

Will working patterns change too, if people have to stay in their home towns to care for families? Will we be able to afford only one parent going out to work so the other can take on caring responsibilities?

I think working patterns will change OP, if there's nobody to look after old people their family will need to do it.

We too moved away from F&F, but it was unheard of for most of my parents generation, well certainly wc families.
My mum used to volunteer at The Derby and Joan club at night when her own mum passed away.
It was only for social entertainment and provided by the council, the volunteers did lots of fundraising for activities.