Elsie Scully-Hicks

[Elephantgrey]

How can you understand how someone can harm such a tiny baby. My husband knew Matthew Scully-Hicks and said you would never imagine he would be the sort of person to do something like this. When we first heard about it we imagined that he had just snapped but seeing the news report he inflicted so many injuries on her since the day she arrived. It's just heartbreaking.

This (I hope you don't mind MrsD. I think it beats repeating because it's spot on);

"That little girl didn't arrive at her shiny new home as a blank slate.
"She was a person with an identity and a history.
"When you adopt the child becomes your son/daughter but they do not become your property.
"If you are not prepared to accept them as someone else's birth child you should be adopting in the first place.

"I suspect this was part of the issue that led to this little girls death.
"The vision of a perfect little family. All ready supplied for dressing up in new clothes and new names.
But instead of dollies they got real live children. Children deeply affected by their past and experiences.
"That fucker couldn't handle it but wasn't prepared to disclose the flaws in his perfect little SAHD fantasy.

"They changed her NAME. They didn't want a child with a chavvy name that didn't fit in with their picture of what their family should look like.

"There are sometimes very good reasons for changing an adopted child's name. Snobbery isn't one of them.

"The madness of someone saying 'The name issue is irrelevant'.

"Yeah its only a name. Its only a traumatised and confused child's identity. Nothing important hey?"

Sorry Battleax but that is complete conjecture.

It could be possible that the Grandmother didn't get custody of the children because the BM would be the sort of person to regularly turn up high unannounced screaming outside the house that she wants her kids back, which would be distressing for all concerned.

I think it's quite astute given the known facts and characters.

Battleax in THIS case, not in every case where adopters have changed the name of their child. As it happens regarding this case I agree with MrsDV

I respectfully disagree.

I have some knowledge of cases where kinship adoption or fostering is a consideration.

There are many reasons why a birth grandmother would be assessed as unsuitable. Being a size 18 and having a dog are not among them.

In one case I know of (older child, abou 10, if I remember correctly) the birth grandparents were ruled out because (among other reasons) the grandfather kept guns and was not prepared to agree to storing them safely (this in itself is worrying, but it also indicates an inflexible attitude). In another case, the grandmother was considered to be very much under the power of the birth mother, who was a serious risk to the child's well-being, and it was considered that the grandmother would be unable to prevent the birth mother from harming the child.

Kinship adoptions and fostering can be really good in some cases. But clearly not in all.

Battleax in THIS case, not in every case where adopters have changed the name of their child.

Well yes I must have said that at least a dozen times.

As it happens regarding this case I agree with MrsDV

It's MrsDV that I'm calling astute

Sorry I didn’t mean you weren’t agreeing with MrsDV I was pointing out that although I disagree that everyone who changes their adoptive child’s name is a wrong un, I agree with the points she’s made about this case.

in THIS case, not in every case where adopters have changed the name of their child.

Although I do think you need an extremely good reason to change the name of anyone over a few months old.

I have no experience with adoption.

When reading about the name change I did think they'd changed it to something they found more befitting the family.

I disagree that everyone who changes their adoptive child’s name is a wrong un,

Nobody has said that it's the sign of a "wrong in" have they? What it is is disorienting for the child and not very therapeutic parenting.

Right I’m going to go now because I’m not in the mood for defending my (incidentally extremely loving, very thoughtful, supportive and committed) parents and their choices.

However I’m fairly sure that having the shit kicked out of him and being attacked repeatedly by his birth mother by the time he was 6 months damaged my brother a hell of a lot more than his name being changed

Not 30 years ago is not now. Ideas have changed. Your parents don't need defending.

You know what you’re right, I’ve got overly invested personally on a point that isn’t relevant today. Sorry.

No, I’m not being obtuse @mrsDV. I’m responding to your point. You have sought to say that changing her name is linked somehow to what he went on to do ie horrific abuse and murder. I think that’s totally fanciful and pretty unfair to the many adoptive parents who change their child’s name. If there is generally no link between changing a name and poor care (and I don’t think there is one), then I’m unsure why you think it was such a red flag in this case.

Do you have any evidence of why they changed her name? I know you’ve speculated, and you may be right, but for all we know social services advised them to. Or it was the husband that wanted to and not the murderer. There is woefully insufficient evidence to make conclusions of a link in this case, even if your general proposition that changing a name can be a red flag were a sound one.

Why did nobody notice all was not well with this child? Did either adoptive parent not have extended family or friends? Why weren't people more vigilante. Just don't get it. There's no way in a million years I am sticking up for him but that guy was massively struggling.

notreally
Your parents may well have been advised to change names. They may have been told that it was better for the children.
30 years ago that idea was still around although things were changing. There would have been people working in adoption who were trained at a time when it would have been very odd not to change a child's name
You don't need to defend your parents.

I am really not one to slag off adoptive parents and have spent years defending them on MN

I wouldn't judge a namechanging adopter without knowing their reasons for doing so. As a general concept I am against name changing but accept there are good reasons for doing so.

I think that’s totally fanciful and pretty unfair to the many adoptive parents who change their child’s name
Only because you are making it so.
Weirdly

Do you have any evidence of why they changed her name? I know you’ve speculated, and you may be right, but for all we know social services advised them to.

But that's exactly the point; We know that the BGM had regular contact eight up until the AO, so in that kind of case, no advice would have been given about high risk necessitating a name change and vice Verda if it had been considered high risk, the BGM would not have been allowed that much contact.

Or it was the husband that wanted to and not the murderer

That could well be the case. Maybe it WAS the WOHM man who was the driving force, who most wanted a picket fence, perfect children and a stay at home partner.

Perhaps that's part of the toxic dynamic? The partner certainly said some strange, in-denial, things about his "happy home full of love".

The neighbours heard him screaming and swearing at the child. WTF

TheFirstMrsDV you’re right, I ended up getting bizarrely personally invested when I shouldn’t have. Overly emotional and missing my mum like mad today, I’m sorry.

I actually do agree with many of the points you’ve made. And adoptive parents are bloody brilliant!

@mrsDv I don’t even know what that post means, let’s just agree to disagree about whether the name change is relevant to the fact Scully-Hicks went on to murder her.

@battleax

That’s a fair point - I didn’t realise she was having particularly regular contact. Usually contact with birth family reduced so would be around monthly just prior to adoption. I agree it doesn’t sound like birth GM posed a risk.

But we don’t know about the potential risk from birth father or even the birth mother for that matter, or at least I haven’t heard anything about it.

And yes the husband has said some odd things. I’m reserving judgment on him and I’m sure social services have or will investigate his ability to protect the child still in his care but certainly there is prima facie cause for concern.