£100BN Labour lied to get the students vote.

[Whodoesthis17]

I read the news today and saw that Labour admitted they never costed this out, and don't know where the money will be found, so won't be doing this if elected. Hang on wasn't this the reason the young voted for them.

So Corbyn LIED.

People thinking youth voted on tuition fees are going to lose big time again. It is obvious they don't understand what happened in these elections.
Op
You haven't answered my question.

The data speaks for itself. The tipping point age between labour and conservatives was 47. If someone can give me a convincing explanation for that based solely on fees then I'll be happy to change my mind. What do people in their 30s like me, too old to benefit from free fees and too young to have children who will benefit, have to gain from the policy?

weaselwomble

Re your ” No. No it isn't and I'm sick of hearing this. I have a lot of just graduated, studying and college age friends. Not one of them voted labour for free education. They voted because they care about our old people, the disabled and the NHS.”

The Labour manifesto was basically to get back the votes they lost last time, due to their incompetent record in power from 1997 to 2010.

For Student fees, it was Labour’s Gordon brown running out of money that commissioned the Lord Browne report on student funding, to bravely report AFTER the 2010 general election, that was basically implemented by the Coalition, as all the money had run out, and then some.

“The (2009/10) Browne Review or Independent Review of Higher Education Funding and Student Finance”

For pensioners, with huge annual rises in the likes of Council Tax etc from 1997, the State pension increases were derisory (hence the Tories brought in the Triple Lock to help compensate for Labour’s policies on state rises), but also company Final Salary and private pensions were DECIMATED by Labour, taking well over £200 billion out from 1997.

And it wasn’t long ago, Labour were threatening to CUT pensions further, to FUND student fee cuts.

On the NHS and other public services, much of the problems are due to the bad Private Finance Initiative (PFI) debt Labour loaded on hospitals, schools etc, borrowing from the private sector on expensive contracts of up to 50-years – they disingenuously keep accusing the Tories of ABOUT to do.

To say Labour's version of facts is 'tricksy', is an understatement.

AFTER the 2010 general election, that was basically implemented by the Coalition, as all the money had run out, and then some

You do know "the money" hadn't "run out"? Govts can't run out of money.

True that PFI was a terrible idea. John Major's govt started it, criticised by the then Labour opposition (not Blairite ) & didn't do much.
Blair's Govt picked up the PFI ball & ran with it, criticised by the then Tory opposition, but guess what?

Despite being so critical of PFI while in opposition and promising reform, once in power George Osborne progressed 61 PFI schemes worth a total of £6.9bn in his first year as Chancellor

Corbyn would not do PFI deals.

Just like a whole Load of students voted LibDem For no fees and look where that ended up.
Can we save the outrage for fuck ups that are actually happening? This is just distraction. He didn't win, so can't recant on anything. It wasn't in the labour manifesto. This is the oddest thread of political outrage ever.
And Thesaurass your username is grim and your posts are impossible to read.

This is a quote from the bbc website

I'm looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden

Where is the lie?

It may well be in another paper, but as other posters said the only thing in the manifesto was that they woukd get rid of them moving forward

And once again for the record...i am not a labour supporter

Labour won the election on social media, brilliantly, and the Tories completely failed. But they didn't get the majority. Plain facts.

Next campaign, expect to see a LOT more carefully thought through Tory social media posts, and a more balanced debate,

In the times comments today

Hopefully its the right way round

Thanks, Rufus (yes it worked )

Lord Adonis's tuition fees were c £1100. If they'd stayed at that (or that plus inflation) it wouldn't be the issue it is now. Jumping from 1000 to 3000 to 9000 was pure greed & very poor value for money. The entire higher ed system needs a massive overhaul. Why not go back to polys with vocational degrees/diplomas?

Doing away with NHS bursaries was another dreadful decision by the Tories

Hell I would vote Corbyn if he offered me a £50,000 bribe fuck the country and I am a conservative. Did Jeremy ever pass a Maths exam? didn't his parents 'force' him into a Grammar school.

LapdanceShoeshine

Re your ”True that PFI was a terrible idea. John Major's govt started it, criticised by the then Labour opposition (not Blairite hmm) & didn't do much.”
”Blair's Govt picked up the PFI ball & ran with it, criticised by the then Tory opposition, but guess what?”

Samuel Colt invented the revolver, so was he to blame when every idiot shot themselves in the foot using it?

So what if the Conservatives ‘invented’ Private Finance Initiative contracts for the public sector to sometimes use, and the professional opposer party Labour then in opposition opposed it, the fact was Labour without a commercial little grey cell between them, from 1997 turbo agreed contracts on behalf of the taxpayer, our village idiot wouldn’t have e.g. 71% profit margins.

Andy Burnham we see above was in charge of 221 PFI contracts, with his financial CV he now runs Manchester’s finances doesn’t he? God help Manchester.

NHS Hospital Trusts were not facing bankruptcy due to PFI contracts taken out under the Conservatives previous watch.

Re the Osborne “61 PFI schemes worth a total of £6.9billion in his first year”, I assume you mean putting contracts out to tender that under the Tories, are far better negotiated and monitored, and taking your figures as true, out of an annual what £100 billion NHS budget – that is hardly the mass privatisation Labour warns will immediately happen about every election time.

Even Mr Corbyn acknowledges the Labour PFI problem, and of course blaming the tricksy City for Labour government signatures, and so maybe, some of the £250 billion the Corbyn/McDonnell financial experts wants to borrow from the taxpayer over their first parliament, will be used to bail out previous Labour borrowings – the devil is on the non details his disciples take on trust not to disclose until AFTER a general election.

“Labour has duty to resolve 'mess' of hospital PFI deals, says Jeremy Corbyn”

LapdanceShoeshine

Re your “You do know "the money" hadn't "run out"? Govts can't run out of money.”

Well that is not what was in the note Labour left for his incoming Coalition successor David Laws.
“Ex-Treasury secretary (Labour’s) Liam Byrne's note to his successor: “there's no money left”

And as the Conservatives left £400 billion of National Debt in 1997 with our tax receipts/spending books to balance in the early 2000s (which they did), but then got back £1 trillion of National Debt, the UK government spending a then projected !67 billion a year more than what we earned by Labour Chancellor Darling – plus our services stuffed with up to 50-years of bad PFI debts, who are we to disagree with him?

The note was a JOKE - not a very good joke, admittedly - not intended to be publicised at the time (Maudling left a similar one for Callaghan, & there are probably others that never were publicised)

It's really sad that people are still blindly quoting it.

National Debt stayed pretty level under Labour (& they improved public services massively at the same time) until 2008 & the WORLD financial crisis.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't think you've probably understood the issue, OP. Labour's manifesto said it would abolish tuition fees, and that hasn't changed.

But during the election campaign, Corbyn also said this in an interview that he would consider ways of writing off student debt:

"There is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I'm looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden.

"I don't see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it."

This is the thing that Labour is now possibly backtracking on. Of course, if you follow current affairs, you'll know that already a vast amount of student debt will never be paid back, regardless of who the government is.

LapdanceShoeshine

Re your "It's really sad that people are still blindly quoting it."

With respect, with the figures of of UK debt, deficit and expenditure growth I showed you over Labour's 13-years that the Conservative administration get blamed for 'needless austerity' trying to sort it - I would say 'the blind' are those thinking that the UK can afford to replicate on steroids those previous high spending Labour bigger State, smaller Private Sector policies - that resulted in 2010, in the biggest cash annual government overspend in the EU, by far,

That note was right, and THEN some.

LapdanceShoeshine

Re your “National Debt stayed pretty level under Labour (& they improved public services massively at the same time) until 2008 & the WORLD financial crisis.”

Forgetting for one moment that ‘in the good times’ a government should use a budget surplus to start PAYING DOWN national debt, rather than increasing annual borrowing from 2001 as your graph shows – especially if raising company and personal taxes at the same time, that will make the recession worse for companies and citizens alike, when not reversed.

When Labour’s Brown effectively deregulated banks from 1997, mirroring deregulation in the U.S., the UK economy and government tax receipts were greatly inflated by the UK lending/borrowing boom - and so Labour used this credit growth tax ‘windfall’ and higher general taxes to grow the size of the state, plus benefits and welfare (which again should in cash terms should fall during an employment ‘boom’) far more than any other EU country – which was ALL to come under pressure on the first recession, never mind the worst financial recession since the 1930s.

In other words, that credit and national debt fuelled UK growth was hardly sustainable, yet the ‘fixed costs’ of the State not only remained, but for some strange reason coming up to an election, as tax providing private sector jobs fell, 100% tax funded public sector jobs rose, making the budget deficit even worse.

Hence in 2010 having done nothing other than looking to raise taxes before e.g. National Insurance, and after the election, to try sustain the unsustainable, judging by their 2010 manifesto (not Chancellor Darling’s warning), they were clueless what to do to fix their own high spending mess.

Yet more of the pre 2010 same ££££PLUS, is now the Labour ‘alternative’?

This table is interesting re debt repayment

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

LapdanceShoeshine

Are you serious, accusing the Conservatives of increasing the UK national debt, after what they INHERITED?

I reiterate earlier points I made; the Conservatives looking to get the UK annual finances in order, in 1997 left Labour £400 billion of National Debt, and had budgeted the UK’ finances to go into a annual tax receipt/spending SURPLUS by 2001, which it did.

In 2010 Labour passed to the Conservatives £1 trillion of National Debt, the Public Sector budgets stuffed with £222 billion of badly negotiated Public Finance Initiative debt – and a Labour projected ANNUAL budget overspend of £167 billion – due to the ‘fixed costs’ of their much enlarged State, made worse by their recession that saw over 5% of GDP/output LOST, they never got back.

That Labour 2010 projected budget deficit/overspend of £167 billion came in under the Coalition, as a £153 billion overspend, resulting as every annual deficit will do, INCREASING the National Debt figure by the deficit amount - PLUS the annual interest it costs UK taxpayers to pay the interest to government bond holders, funding our national debt, £46 billion THIS year.

Question; who wanted the Conservatives to annually cut the £153 billion annual overspend Labour in 2010 left ingrained into public spending from 2011, or even half that figure?

As to blame the Conservative for not slashing public spending that severely from Year One, and so increasing National Debt annually by each years deficit – especially while politically OPPOSING every cut in government spending Tory ideological ‘austerity’ – is socialist party hypocrisy, in the extreme.

From 2010 that government had to LOWER the annual budget deficit, address departmental spending problems, and gives decent tax breaks to companies and citizens to both lift us out of recession and help with the fall in real earnings – which had a to be a priorities balancing act, but would have slowed down the deficit reduction – but far more effective than Labour’s planed post 2010 strategy, of RAISING taxes on those who had received NO GOVERNMENT HELP, from 2008 to May 2010.

everyone receives government help, or do you not drive on our roads, use surgeons who trained at
University, or use the UKs infrastructure in anyway?
Quite revealing, that comment.

Very revealing crow

Tory supporters just don't seem to be able to grasp the message about negatve campaigning/negative propaganda. It's not enough to slag off your opponents anymore. People aren't stupid. They're quite capable of seeing the Tory's poor record in office and the dreadful impact it's had on a huge portion of the populace. If they think they can garner support by the simple mechanism of criticising other parties or individuals, they have learnt nothing. People have seen hard evidence of Tory policies, have seen the massive bung they gave the DUP and seem to think we'll forget all that if they bring up something that Labour suppposedly did or didn't do a decade or more ago. It's pathetic really. Smacks of desperation.

TheCrowFromBelow

No companies or individuals received any help from the Labour government that had raised taxes so much over the previous decade e.g. Council Tax on a Band D property up 105% on average across England, after the worst recession in 80-years, when other countries cut taxes - as the size of their precious State was more important, especially when trade unions were funding over 90% of their election campaign.