School leaving age to be raised to 18 by 2013!

[homemama]

Haven't got a link but just heard it on the news.

Kids don't have to stay and do Alevels, they can, in fact be off site learning a trade or attending some form of FE course. Less academic kids can (in theory) now gain a well respected trade.

I hope it can only be good for the country/economy. I also hope this isn't just lip service and that a huge amount of funding will now go into 16-18 provision. Finally, I'm hoping this means the government may abandon their 50% to university target.

this is true!

The thing is we already have too many kids doing A levels who are basically occupying a seat to get some 'free' money. They do little or no work and have little or no interest in the subjects. Some even do subjects that thye activly dislike, because the managed to get a good enough grade at GCSE to allow them to do an AS level.

Most of these kids fail the end of the lower sixth

We had one persistant truant in year 11 apply to enther the sixth form. He was actually surprised when we told him no.

I don't think I really want to teach more kids who are just 'marking time'. I don't see how having kids mess about for two more years is going to get us the skilled population that we nned.

And if you think you can motivate them, be my guest. I'm buggered if I know how to do it.

Can someone tell me what EMA is?

MB you're right, but if those same kids could get the same benefits on a non-academic ourse wouldn't they be doing that?

I would be dead against kids all staying on an academic course until 18, but if there's adequate provision elsewhere, then yes OK. My school didnt do A Levels, we all went to a good college where they also offered car mechanics, construction, farming (well it was OSmerset LOL!), business, IT, etc etc etc. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't find something they liked there. Well apart from those who will end up on the street corners drinking cider, and not a lot will motivate them anyway.

Mercy, educational maintenance allowance- pay to go to further ed and progress well

EMA

I agree that alternative courses are the way. But I just can see this government (or any other for that matter) putting the money inot voc ed.

They didn't when we have Secondary Moderns, did they? To my mind there was nothing so very wrong with the 11+ system per se, but they never spent the mopney that was nedded on the appropriate voc ed courses. And the voc ed was seen as second best.

Ironically you need less money spent on academic stuff.

I can just see this being an Huge screw up

Actually, I've convinced myself that the better way of doing it is to keep compulsary education to 16 but let some kids switch to vocational courses at 14. By the time they're 15/16 we've lost many of them.

However, I do think that some sort of general studies-citizenship type ensemble should be compulsary. But, it needs to be relevant Not airy fairy wooly crap as it is in many schools. Teenagers need to learn how to pay bills, how to understand interest rates on their bank and cc statements. They should have a basic understanding of our political system and who the PM is. They should also learn basic cooking and housekeeping skills. In short, know how to look after themselves and their interests.

LGJ runs off to research Independent Schools.

I dunno about the 11 plus, think it was OK if you improved access to Gramamrs- Dad was child 15 of 16, and the first (and only) to get a place in Grammar, his Mum couldnt afford the Uniform so he didnt go and I dont think he ever got over that. NOt a failing of 11+ though, just the grammar system I guess.

government running it properly is an issue I agree- but I like the academic / vocational theory

Peachy, that's sad about your dad. My dad was the eldest of 6 so despite gaining 6 highers (he's scottish)a year early, he had to leave school at 16 to help support a widowed mother and younger siblings. I can still sense his sadness at it.

The proposals would allow kids to go onto more vocational courses, the suggestion is that kids who were less interested in academic stuff would do 14-19 diplomas in things like engineering, building, IT.The diplomas would have levels 1-3 which would match from 4 Gcses up to 3 A-levels credit depending on the level attained.

They actually look quite well planned.

But what happens to the ones who want to leave school and find work so that they have their own income?

They won't be able to but there are very few 16 year olds school leavers who end up working. About 70% of 16 year olds are in education/training (including appreticeships) and the rest are in very low paid, short-term jobs or are unemployed. It's pretty much impossible to leave school at 16 and walk into an office job or whatever now.

I don't think the whole going to jail thing will work but i do think its a good idea to change teh leaving age to 18.

I have a 16 year old brother who since the day of his borthday in january has refused to go to school.

admitedly he has been bullioed most of his life so he has always hated school and getting him to attend has been a real struggle but he knows that he just doesn't have to attend anymore, so wont.

he has no chance of finding a job and cannot sign on until he is 18 so he is now a burden on my parents who are already "just scraping by"

if he had to stay in school until he was 18 then he would pretty much have to get the qualifications he needs to find decent employment.....although at this stage ANY employment would be good.

i also feel that the amount of anti social crime would be reduced as the teenagers would hgave something to focus on and wouldn't just be loitering around street corners as they have nothing better to do.

BUT as i say...this is all taken on face value and i havent really looked at it properly. no doubt i will find countless holes once i do as teh government never think things through properly, they just want quick attention grabbing headlines..

Why are there so few 16 year olds who end up working? My sister left school at 16 w/o any qualifications and got a job. As did quite a few people I know. They worked their way up through companies or branched out on their own after 12 months and became self-employed. Why have things been made so difficult for 16yo school-leavers to get jobs now? There only seems help available to them to get into college or onto training courses for which they receive no payment.
Mamazon - surely your 16yo brother will still be the same burden on your parents if he was at college or staying at school until he was 18. You say he has always hated school. Why would it be better for him to do 2 more years of something he hates? I remember getting my first job and finding it so different to school that it gave me a new outlook on life....and incredibly..they paid me for it too.

Well I work in FE. Many, if not most of my students are at college because:
a) they come from low income households and their parents still receive benefits for them if they are in full time education after 16. As soon as they leave, benefits stop,
b) Their school has refused to take them back after GCSEs because of poor attendance/work/grades/discipline issues etc.

The fact is, the only sanction we actually have is the ability ot kick them out if they don't behave. Schools don't really have this right anymore, it affects their place on the league tables. It comes as a huge shock to students when we actually follow up our threats to expel them.

The problem with courses at FE is the govt has removed any funding for cources that don't have a recognised qualification as an outcome. So unless they are doing GCSE resits, Key Skills or Free Standing Maths Units, there's no course for them to go on. Many of these kids fail miserably at exams and are incapable of actually handing in any course work or assignments. All the courses require these as 'evidence' to justify the govt funding them.

I'm with martinbishop on this one. One of the reasons I'm getting out of teaching is I'm spending more and more time being a social worker and jailer to disaffected youngsters who have no interest in being there and are only forced into education by financial necessity, rather than actually doing any actual teaching.